"SHREDDER" test (This is SO stupid)

There's more to life than just amps?

Moderators: VelvetGeorge, BUG

mayrandp
Senior Member
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:32 am
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: QC, Canada

Post by mayrandp » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:18 am

ericopp wrote:Most interesting to me is the mention of Spasmodic Elbow Tension picking, where your lower arm is ocillated as opposed to the speed coming from your wrist. WillJay is right that this elbow technique is "sloppy" compared to the tried/true wrist technique, but it's also about 50% faster; i.e. you can achieve 28 notes per second using your elbow as opposed to a maximum speed of 18 nps with the wrist technique.
Robert Fripp calls the picking from the elbow "...the equivalent of switching to overdrive. It lacks the flexibility necessary for cross-picking and picking in an extended compass. It also lacks the fluency for slow, medium, and high speeds, although at very high speeds it has a place." (from Guitar Craft column, Guitar Player, dec. 1990)

I find those kind of debate about technique and speed funny. In jazz, for example, there's rarely a debate about who's the fastest player because technique is seen as a tool for expression. If you need a lot of notes to express how feel while playing, well go for it! IMO, the problems begin when when you spend more time showing your 'tools' than expressing yourself.

As far as 'inefficient technique' is concerned, when the results are there and the guy doesn't hurt himself while playing, who care if he's playing with only three finger or holding is pick with the 'wrong' fingers.

Billy Batz
Senior Member
Posts: 8566
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:49 pm

Post by Billy Batz » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:53 pm

ANything and everything you can do to make noise is fine at any speed as long as its music and not noodling.

User avatar
ericopp
Senior Member
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:05 pm

Post by ericopp » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:28 pm

Hey mayrandp, thanks for the Fripp quote. That helps.
I actually thought I was the only one who employed this "technique", so it's nice to hear that others use it, too.
Now, I do need to concentrate on speed picking the "right" way; i.e. with my wrist, as opposed to always relying on my elbow. My playing sounds like Jimmy Page with a very occasional flurry from Michael Angelo.
"If I can't play my guitar through a Marshall I would rather not play my guitar at all." - Justin Hawkins - The Darkness

User avatar
Tone Slinger
Senior Member
Posts: 6520
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:31 am

Post by Tone Slinger » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:38 pm

After all this talk on the "elbow' spasmic type playing, I noticed that I have a few flurries of notes where I do this. To play at the speed that I am premeditating, this technique must have been the only way for me to do it(pay that fast). I never let myself forget that when I was 14 (1985) Yngwie Malmsteen was the man to be. I had to be able to play like that, in my mind, to compete, or be any good. I sorta see myself as an 'original' shredder, in the light of all these 'New' school guy's, but I dont consider myself a shredder, It's just been easy for me to play fast, so its a no brainer.

I's funny, but I remember last May, at a George Lynch clinic. Someone asked about new school shredders, and Lynch was like " They can really sweep pick and alternate pick, but they rarely bend strings, use vibrato or hold a note ". I totally agree.

User avatar
45auto
Senior Member
Posts: 2532
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:23 pm
Location: cowtown tx

Post by 45auto » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:03 pm

ok, here ya go. (you may want to fast forward a bit...)

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=BynUZOJc8QI

:lol:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... dID=559714" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h119/ ... t=1980.flv" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Billy Batz
Senior Member
Posts: 8566
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:49 pm

Post by Billy Batz » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:11 pm

I think if your going to play taht fast your instinctively going for the elbow-spasm techinique.

User avatar
6string
Senior Member
Posts: 238
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:36 am
Location: Nashville

Post by 6string » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:31 pm


User avatar
ericopp
Senior Member
Posts: 287
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:05 pm

Post by ericopp » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:14 pm

The downside to the Spasmodic Elbow Technique is lack of efficiency. THe 28 nps shredding can only be sustained for a matter of seconds; after 15-20 seconds of blurring speed, you're spent.

All you wrist pickers out there can seemingly flail away for hours of sustained 18 nps work - I can't do that at all. It's like you're always behind the wheel of a Camaro- ready to go seriously fast anytime for any length of time.

My playing is more like driving a Camry: sloppy until I hit the nitrous (the elbow technique) just long enough to impress the Camaro, and then I go back to my slow, sloppy, "tasteful" playing. :)

It makes me a little sad knowing that I lack the fundamental wrist-picking ability, but it's nice knowing that I can pick up the speed on occasion.
"If I can't play my guitar through a Marshall I would rather not play my guitar at all." - Justin Hawkins - The Darkness

Darden
New Member
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:39 am

Post by Darden » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:30 pm

I was at a Howard Roberts seminar w-a-y back in the day, at the peak of the whole shred thing (mid-80's). Somebody asked him what he thought of that particluar style. He said "Oh yeah, classical players have a term for that stuff. They call it 'warming up'".

User avatar
Tone Slinger
Senior Member
Posts: 6520
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:31 am

Post by Tone Slinger » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:19 pm

Man I tell ya, 'Warming Up', that does make sense. I have been listening to alot of Blackmore (71-80) lately. I like how he can play fast, but only when it is called for or needed. The same with UFO era Schenker and Scorpions era Uli Roth. Really, all 3 of those dudes to this day, play tastefully.

User avatar
out of focus
Senior Member
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:41 pm
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: Houston,TX

Post by out of focus » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:33 pm


Post Reply