Time to buy: Which one? 100watt full kit? Or other?

[nikki-k]

Hi!
OK, time to order! But I am slightly unsure of exactly which/what to order.

In this thread, Rockstah/Mark suggests:

plexi NMV circuit is where u want to start. stock 68. from there stuff like PPIMV, and cascaded gain stages( 2203 ) can be done.

That thread is pretty close to what I am looking to do as well. I originally figured that since many of the guitarists that I love tones of began by taking a '68 12xxx or similar and mod'ing it (or had it mod'd), or simply went with a 70's 2203 NMV (maybe a few MV JMP's here and there), like EVH, Randy, Jake E Lee, etc, would be good ot start there as well. I really want to understand how my amp works, and thus be able to care for it and other tube amps I may own later.

Based on what I have read, I am about 99% sure I would like to have that '68 type foundation, add a PPIMV, cascaded gain. Not sure about the 400v/500v thing though.. sorry, still new, and some things I am unfamiliar with. I think I get it... it acts as a pseudo Variac by dropping voltage from (to?) one of the transformers?

I see 4 kits, but also see some other partial options. The 100 watt Plexi full kit has a review that talks about instructions, a DVD, and every part to build either a '67 or '68 style Plexi 100watter. If I buy that, and simply add a PPIMV, and then do the cascade gain thing later.. would that do it? First build, so the destructions would be cool to have, especially a video! Or is this further from where I think I most likely will want to end up (somewhere between '68 12xxx and 2203 JMP NMV with PPIMV?) ?

I love Jake E Lee's Badlands sound, EVH 1st few years. Randy could get a bit.. fizzy, grainy.. something. But, I LOVE the white Marshall look. The Plexi heads come in white, correct? But, they do not have the black corner protectors, ala Randy's heads? Easy enough to add tho I suppose... (sigh) I tried so hard to make this post short...

Would really like to have an order placed by the end of the weekend, so any and all help very greatly appreciated!!!
thx!
nikki

Oh! Edited to add:
I am going to want to do a few things.. One is finding a good attentuator that can do a dummy load (no speaker cab required) and a line out so I can slave it up (dimed!), and also slave out to do w/d/w and/or DI for post (time based primarily) effects. The other is.. the Marshall book; I am guessing it is a no brainer to buy that as well? And a shirt? (sigh) Shopping is tiring...lol...

[demonufo]

Well, it sounds like you are following the sensible direction and already know what you want. As for the white Randy headbox;
http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17219" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm assuming you've read this one already;
http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... g+rockstah" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The other is.. the Marshall book; I am guessing it is a no brainer to buy that as well? And a shirt? (sigh) Shopping is tiring...lol...

I dunno, give a woman a credit card...

Good luck with the build, you're in good hands here.

[nikki-k]

Hi!
Ah, sweet! No, I had not seen that thread.. I guess I was bound to miss one. Amazing thread. I am about 8-9 pages in, just under 40 to go. Really cool to see/hear what is happening. The biggie is.. if I start from a '68 12xxx series. Of course, I need to figure out what I should order, and what I will get with it.

If I buy this, will I be able to choose to build a '68 12xxx from what is included? I see options for black, white or purple boxes; the white boxes appear to be similar to Randy's, minus logo and black corners. I could add the corners, and I want to do a custom logo.

This review from that kit implies I could in fact do the '68, but I am unclear if that year solely had 12xxx serials, or if those started part way through.. among other things. Also, it mentions a DVD included with the kit... yes?

All that said.. getting closest to that "Rockstah mod'd '68 12xxx" (with cascaded gain and a PPIMV) from square one, is that full kit the best route? Or is there another starting point that would be better? The more I get up to speed, the less I feel the need for detailed destructions.

Is a Hot Plate (say, 8 ohm) best solution for slaving/DI with ability to dummy load minus a speaker/cab entirely?
What do you guys use for a dummy load when testing a powered amp? Old "sacrifice-able" speaker? Other?

thanks for all the help!
nikki

[demonufo]

'68 is generally referring to 12xxx series amps so no worries there.
See here;
http://metroamp.com/store/product_info. ... cts_id=351" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

By popular demand, a complete early 68 era parts package option. This includes everything needed to build to early '68 specs. The era of EVH's famous Superlead, noted as having a serial number in the 12000 range. Tubes, head case etc. Please note that no step by step instructions are included. But layouts and wiring diagrams are.

See the complete parts list here: http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?t=9972" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To purchase this, select "Complete '68 spec package" below. And select "None" each other option.

As for the attenuation/slaving thing, I suggest you put a post in another heading. I'm strictly a guitar/lead/amp man, and think attenuation is for girls!


Figuratively speaking of course!

[nikki-k]

LOL! Yeah, yeah.. attenuation...lol..

After several more hours of reviewing schematics, zillions of mod pages and threads, and ending up with my head spinning and eyes burning... I am more confused than when I started, and even more unsure.

Looking at the early to mid '69 100 watt Super Lead, I like the difference in chassis, caps on top, etc. Then, cascading gain as a mod versus the 2203.. well, cascade it and it is virtually the same, but then I gotta figure the best way to tailor things to compensate.. while the 2203 is already "tweaked" for it. (sigh) I have always been more of a "plug in, tweak, good to go" girl, but then I do like to try different speakers and cabs and stuff. Not sure if I want to spend so much time pulling the chassis out, solder, unsolder, wait for parts, etc. I heard that one Rockstah clip on his soundclick page, and said- Ahhh! Great sounding amp. Would be cool to try one. But now it is turning into Oktoberfest. "Here is schematic. Here is pic of inside. Here is parts list. Good luck, and have fun!" If only it were really that simple..lol..

So lost...

[thousandshirts]

I think the 100 watt steel chassis is a great choice. It has all the space and pieces to facilitate everything you've mentioned. Both NMV and cascaded circuits can be stuffed into one. For maximum flexibility down the line, I'd go with the one pictured in the 67/68 "bare bones" package. It has an extra preamp tube hole cut already (I think it comes with a cover for the hole, too), so you have the option of adding another tube for your cascading purposes. This chassis forces you to use a cap board inside the amp -- that's not a big deal though if you ask me. The 100 watt chassis also will have some extra room inside over by the preamp tubes and input jacks for an even longer preamp board -- so you could have the normal '68 Super Lead as is, and put the JCM section further over on a new addition. With a switch! The 400/500v switching transformer is a nice touch I think. Certainly a bit more hassle for a first time builder. However I think you will find no shortage of helping hands around here to answer your every question.

For a straight up dummy load, you can get some big resistors. A local electronics supply store that has a weekly or monthly order coming in from a large online supplier such as "Newark" or "Mouser" should let you piggyback on an order, getting shipping for free. If not, check out someplace like Weber speakers:

https://amptechtools.powweb.com/truload.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I grabbed two of their 8 ohm / 200 watt resistors. With these two I can set them up for 4 ohms / 400 watts (parallel), 16 ohms / 400 watts (series), or just use a single 8 at 200 watts. Plenty of handling power. I think for the two resistors, after shipping, it was 40 something dollars.

The white head cabs made by St. August are truly beautiful -- with the black corners and trim. Wow!

I don't use attenuators personally but the best I've ever heard in person is the Ho Electronics attenuator, made by Mr. Ho, in nearby Vancouver, BC, Canada, and marketed on the Internet as "Ultimate Attenuator." The Internet company marks them up from the cost at Ho's Electronics.

http://www.hoelectronics.com/Product2.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.ultimateattenuator.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is a "line out" mod for the NMV (Plexi) style amps on the board here. I haven't tried it:

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... t=line+out" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Attenuators and line out type setups aren't my area of interest. There are a lot of different opinions on this in other areas of the board, though. Lots of sound samples to check as well. Don't feel pressured to make any decisions today or even this week. All of the amp parts will be there next week too. It's hard to be patient, and it sounds like you know what you're after anyways, so waiting might not make any difference, but there is so much info here to digest and read, and so many sound clips to go through. If you're not sure, just keep searching.

[nikki-k]

Wow! Lots of info.. thx!

I have kept going, and I think I have made one decision, which conflicts with what you just mentioned, and now i need to evaluate again I was going to go with the aluminum chassis; get those caps up top, spread out the transformers.. bit more room.. I think.. Aluminum is supposed to provide a little snap over steel; less weight is good for me! Like the stand up and caps out tho. Would be kinda cool to use the extra under room for something like you mentioned!

Going to go with the 400v/500v. Price is close/same, so why not? Worst case is hard wire it 500v and still have a great PT. Metro Dagnall OT and.. not sure which choke yet.. have not considered yet. Heading in a "late '68 to mid '69 meets NMV 2203, dual tap PT mod + LarMar PPIMV.. and a few tone mods" route.

I love that headbox the more I look at it, and although it isn't a Metro... well, I will be spending enough here anyway I think

Front/rear plates will be interesting. I might simply go with Plexi 100, mod as I see fit. Heck.. I would love to find someone to cut custom ones. I would rename everything, put the numbers on wrong.. just complete idiocy! Was tempted to do a "nursery school kids painted my plates" look.. for a second.. would be hysterical...

The Lar/Mar PPIMV looks to be the choice I think. Might even irk some people and stick it on the front!

Might grab the unbuilt PTP 100 watt Super Lead kit, sub in parts where needed to stumble toward 2203 territory ala this Rockstah thread. Some nice PEC pots... mmm... I guess I could "ground bar off the board" instead of the backs of the pots (since the PECs do not take kindly to it. More decisions...

Tubes will be interesting... EL34 I guess, not sure which ones yet. For the 12ax7/ecc83... will be interesting. I have a few matched pairs of old Brimar ECC83's from decades ago that are really sweet in Mesa Mark series amps. Haven't played with many different 12AX7 types in Marshalls, and not sure about how doing one type in V1 and V2 and another in V3 (PI) would do.

Attenuator/dummy load.. leaning toward Hot Plate for light attentuation (-3dB, -6dB), and then as dummy load to use the Line Out for reamp/post effects.

Whew!! See if sleep changes my mind.. I am going to have Sozo caps chasing me in my nightmares tonight...

[demonufo]

Brimars are great tubes, I just don't really like them all that much in Marshalls. Lovely in my Cornford though. I'm not really a fan of modern tubes either, but there are some old tubes available at reasonable prices, Sylvania's for instance, or my beloved Mullards and Telefunkens at quite often silly prices. Power tubes aren't quite so crucial, but I still recommend RFT's or Tesla's (old one's, not JJ's). I can't recommend Mullards, simply because the prices of these have now gone crazy.
Yes, NOS power tubes are pricey, but the are A LOT more durable, and less likely to let you down. Can I recommend that you start off with some real cheap tubes though, as you down want to build an amp from scratch with real NOS beauties only to find you've done something really wrong, and fry a couple of hundred dollars!
There's a member on this forum called Tubetramp (very straight talking, but hard to read his posts, doesn't tolerate bullsh!t or suffer fools though) who always keeps good stocks of older tubes, and also thoroughly tests certain new tubes.
He is WELL worth chasing up, and follow his advice. Tell him what you've got, and what you're after, and he'll give you good advice and good prices.
I have bought several pre's from him in the past and everything has been perfect, and packed in a bombproof shell!
Don't worry if he doesn't respond, be patient, but persistent. He's not always available.