DOD 250 GREY SPEC MODS

[outlier]

Dave, again, thanks for the very kind words.

Normally I wouldn't be so reticent about relating details of what I'd come up with, but fact is that individuals that have invested NO time and energy into research and experimentation other than reading my posts pass around my info or profit from it as if it's their own. Then apparently, they think that I'll never see it or have it forwarded to me...

As I'd written before, one eBay seller has come up with copy that's so close to my posts that I'd been getting emails and PMs asking me if those eBay items were mine. As I also wrote, they were not.

But that's how some people do business and I fully understand that. I'm just not going to make it any easier for them than I have to. And why should I?

[yngwie308]

You are most welcome John and I agree, why should you give away your hard earned secrets. The cut and paste mentality of the internet lends itself to this form of piracy and as with all crime these days, the victim has no rights!
Best of luck John, keep up the great work
yngwie308

[Toneguru]

Hey all, first post here! I registered for this forum some time ago, but for one reason or another, just lurked and hadn't posted anything until now.

David, geez, thanks for the compliments! You have no idea how reading stuff like this really makes my day. As I wrote on the Yngwie board, I sent the pedal out with my fingers crossed hoping you'd like it and hoping you'd hear the same thing I was hearing.

About the mod: This all started as something just for fun and was the culmination of a lot of research that a good friend in New Zealand and I did into the early history and circuitry of the 250.

There's more to this than just finding a schematic and blueprinting the pedal to that. I don't have to tell any of you on this forum how official schematics aren't always reflected in an amplifier's actual circuit.

So what I came to understand is that the particularly good sounding 250s shared certain aspects not shown on schematics.

The centerpiece of my modification is based on out-of-production parts that I have one source for. I have a decent, but limited supply and I suspect that when they're gone, that very well may be it...

I also improve the quality of components in the audio path. As part of what was just hobbyist tinkering, I originally rebuilt two 308s from the ground up, replaced everything including jacks, footswitch, etc.

What I came to notice is that one of the rebuilt 308s that had the 308 spec .001 input cap didn't sound tremendously different from the other 308 with the 250 spec .01 input cap.

This was really interesting to me and got me to thinking that maybe some of the charcteristic raspiness associated with the 308 wasn't just due to the use of the .001 input cap, but also the cheaper quality of the parts.

A while back I got a PM from former Yngwie manager Mike Spitzer and he told me that the .001 cap was installed as Yngwie wanted a slightly tighter low end on rhythms. With the rebuilt 308, it did just that: A little tighter on the low end, but a lot closer to the 250 in many respects.

This also got me to thinking that the 308 was probably bread-boarded with quality components, but the production version ... well, whaddaya expect for $30.00?

I do use the same chip as Analogman, the LM741CN. It's spot-on to what I was hearing in my head, but I've also used 1970s-era Texas Instruments Made In Malaysia 741 chips as per some 250s and like that too. Just cleaned out of 'em though, so if anyone knows where I can get some, let me know!

I could also use TI 1458s, which are basically the same thing as many of you surely know, the difference being that they are dual opamps. I bought some of these and have experimented with them. With my Strats, it's a bit more of a Blackmore-ish type tone with these. Very cool.

As far as copying my mods are concerned, I began to notice that there were some sellers on eBay selling modified 308s with not only the mods that I detailed on the defunct Yngwie board, but including text that was practically copied and pasted from my descriptions!

But there's one big difference and that is this: They don't have the OOP parts that I do and that is crucial to getting this sound from the pedal.

Why don't I build clones? Maybe I will someday, but as I wrote, this all just started out as something fun to tinker with, not as some business venture. The friend in NZ talked his up as did a guitarist in Serbia I rebuilt a 308 for and it took off from there.

I suppose if there's enough interest, I may build some clones. I'd like to look into having cards etched, so we'll see... Maybe!

Could you send me a message with your address to buy your 308 Modded grey mod mnster with added megaton gain? Thanks, it sounds fantastic as grey mod tone is THEE BEST..period!
Look forward to your response, wondering what the cost is also, thanks so much!

[outlier]

PM sent!

Here's my most recent 308, which I modified this past Saturday...

[bluesguy]

Hello Outlier, first time poster here but it sounds like you make a great pedal there! I am also VERY interested in this pedal. How do I get ahold of you, how much is it etc.

[Kapo_Polenton]

Hey Outlier! You aren't going to have enough YJM's to meet the demand! Time to clone clone clone! CAll it the "NoPArole" overdrive.

[Tone Slinger]

Man, I thought this was a site where info was shared. I'm not concerned or worried about people using any of my ideas, I mean, the pedal buissiness is 90 % marketing anyway's. It's not like Michael Fuller's mods to the fuzz face ,ala '69 pedal, werent known after he shipped his first one. This particular thread has turned into a Ebay store real quick.

[Kapo_Polenton]

Not really toneslinger... Outlier has been honest and open. If you dug around you could probably find his mod outlined elsewhere on the net already . What he is saying is that he has a source for certain "mojo" parts which most people do not have access to and that these parts are a big contributer to the overall sound of the pedal. So he is offering up a couple of pedals. I don't see anything wrong with the way this has proceeded. People on this site have the right to not share all their secrets if they choose. He hasn't been mean about it, just doesn't want other people taking credit for his time chasing a tone. I don't see an issue with this soo much. I'm glad the information is being brought to light. Besides, the guy selling the kits on ebay is probably only charging 20$ anyway so you could get the info that way too I do see what you are saying though.. I guess in some cases i don't mind it. Not like he is mass producing and charging huge amounts. Just getting a bit back for the time heput in.

[Tone Slinger]

This forum is about 'sharing'. Selling pedals is different. I make/mod stuff all the time. I thought sharing info was cool. I have nothing to hide. Not to sound like an ass, but selling stuff here on the forums is gonna be very limited, cause most here probably make there own stuff. The whole pedal market is mainly directed at those uninclined to circuits, who in endless quests have spent thousands on Tube Screamer variations, only to find out that they all sounded the same,but the first one they bought was pobably best .

[outlier]

OK, it looks like we have an unhappy camper in Tone Slinger. I'm not usually in the business of explaining myself, so I'll invite him to read my posts in this thread over again and perhaps he'll have a better idea about where and why am I with all of this. I believe it has been sufficiently detailed.

Furthermore, I did not start this thread (Yngwie308, your check for five dollars, yes, FIVE dollars! is in the mail...). But seriously now, I have not asked anyone to start any threads anywhere on my behalf, no how, no way. I had a registration that I made here, I dunno, a year or two ago, and thought I'd chime in to thank him. It's the polite thing to do. If people want to engage me in conversation, it's also polite to respond. Someone might not like the answer they hear, but I am doing my best to get back to everyone in a timely fashion.

I'm just a hobbyist tinkerer with a passion for the guitar tones of Yngwie and Akira Takasaki for that matter, that got kinda caught by surprise by all of this, nothing more. I already have two jobs and a baby daughter that keep my quite busy as it is.

All that said, if I am told by the owner of the forum to cease and desist in all mention of this, I will comply, no problem, no protest, no questions asked. As the former mod and then admin of the Plexipalace forum, I know that some forum owners definitely frown on the use of their forum for commercial purposes.

Right now, all I'm doing is just trying to show my gratitude and be polite.

Anyway, my dos centavos...

[Tone Slinger]

Dude, I'm sorry. I guess I misjudged the posts. I regret my former 'interpretations'.

If Dave '308' say's you got a good take on something, then I 100 % BELIEVE it to be true. Dave has SOUL and VIBE as he has been there and done it. I'll take his word for it. I like the 250 spec as well as the distortion spec as far as booster/overdrive/distortions go. I've tried as many variations as my desoldering wick will hold out . I've got several different era's of both pedals. To me, it is the single most important circuit around, concerning distortion.


I didnt know you were a Takasaki fan. That dude BLOWS me AWAY probably more than Malmsteen, if that is possible . 'Dissillusions' 'Aries Lament' (old Boss phaser ?) and "Thunder From The East' "Clock Work Toy" are as good as a human can play as far as I'm concerned. Tone, technical prowess and melody..... Akira has got them all.

[outlier]

No big deal. Just words on the internet...

Akira Takasaki: You could say I'm a fan.

[dstroud]

No big deal. Just words on the internet...

Akira Takasaki: You could say I'm a fan.

Holy cow, are those your guitars!!!!! Those are awesome!!! Hey man, I'm digging the BYOC you modded - that thing is smooth!!! You ever try stacking the 4558's?

[yngwie308]

John, glad you posted your Killer guitar pics, when I see the Loudness Artists forum thread and no Outlier weighing in...I know you are the a huge fan!!
I thank you for the vote on my integrity Billy..I started the thread on his Outlier spec 250 mods, after asking his permission, as I was so enthused over the great tone and quality of work.
John is a good honest guy with a lot to offer us here at Metro Amp forum and he had registered here a while back and was primarily 'lurking' by his own admission.
John didn't start out with the intention of marketing his Grey 250 spec mods at all, he initially offered the mods to those at the 'unofficial' YJM forum, very discounted.
I was so convinced of the dynamics of his work, that I sent him my fully modded YJM308 Analogman pedal, something the other Malmsteen forumites didn't dare chance. Most sent an already stock pedal, ect. Analog Mikes work speaks for itself, yet John took it even further, in fact I wish I had his mod to change the weird DOD power supply input jack to the more user friendly setup he employs!
If I am convinced of a great product or services offered, such as by Velvet George, Analogman, ect., then I have no problem spreading the word without any need for financial reimbursement, ect. I tirelessly championed Metro Amps on the Internet to as many sources as I could and I don't even own a proper Metro amp either.
I was accused, even on the old YJM forum of recieving some form of compensation, ect. I tried to connect George to Gary Moore and Graham Lilley in big way, unfortunately unsuccessfully, but Graham had originally contacted George himself!
Life is too short to mess around with politics and self-serving gains, especially connected to music, guitars and amps, which I honestly have loved since I was a small boy listening to the Beatles, Chet Atkins, Tony Matola, Andreas Segovia, The Ventures and other tapes my dad provided for me.
I get so enthusiastic about guitar music that many know here, I have sent out DVD's and CD's of stuff I found cool.
Many have helped me along the way and I love to give back and share my experiences and knowledge, as knowledge is made to be shared and that truly makes me happiest!
So let's all get along and remain passionate about what we love, John's intentions are well meant and again he brings much to the table here and I am glad to see him posting here now. I know Toneslinger (Billy) is a HUGE 250 fan and should hear Outlier's mods .
As far as using Metro Forum for unsolicited advertising, George is very cool about all this and the only time any censure is given here is when things are given a negative connotation and his money supporting this forum is not spent for people to diss others. What has occured here is very innocent and I accept any responsibility for any infraction, if any, but feel that all that is occurring is just spreading tone to others.

yngwie308

[outlier]

Holy cow, are those your guitars!!!!! Those are awesome!!! Hey man, I'm digging the BYOC you modded - that thing is smooth!!! You ever try stacking the 4558's?

Hey, glad you like it! As I wrote to you, after doing the mod, I found the BYOC 250 still a little cold. I got to thinking I ought to swap out the metal film resistors in the audio path with carbon films and it turned out that that was indeed the final piece of the puzzle. So for you guys with the BYOC 250s, try switching the resistors. In the past I'd also experimented with carbon composition, but that's definitely a no-go. They introduce too much noise.

Yes, those are my guitars. The red is an '88 KG-Prime, one of the first made and the yellow is a '90 KG-Prime. I was told by Killer Guitars president George Azuma that yellow was strictly a limited edition and never to be made again. I had him sign the back of the headstock on one of his visits to me. It's a long story, but I came into possession of those guitars quite fortuitously in 1990 and at a much reduced price. Sometimes I have some real luck and these two are an example of that occasional luck.

I never did try stacking those opamps! I still have to try that! As I'd written to you in an email, I'd read of guys doing it, but it was one of those things that I sort of glossed over as not being very practical I suppose. Then you got me to thinking of trying it. I definitely will, just seems like I have all these projects with pedals I have to get to first...