You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:03 pm

by the way, anybody tried these?
http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/item.a ... id=9911210" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also anybody try mojomusicalsupply 4x12 cabs?

jcs · Post by **jcs** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:29 am

basile865, whats your target tone?

do you have any tonal references on recordings that you are shooting for?

just trying to help bro.

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:46 am

sure, i'll put together a few youtube clips that show the sounds I dig.

First, and foremost this is sort've my holy grail tone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHORdkEF ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From there, theres also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5_kkK8Y2Ts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsfN-YI7 ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwZaMJCR ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJNQdJnT ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

then I'll take this voice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5IOou6qN1o" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

jcs · Post by **jcs** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:02 pm

hey man, you got your priorities straight!

got to see hubert sumlin up close this past summer at a blues fest,he still plays well too!

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:24 pm

basile865 wrote:Why assume it was a magazine? It was just a normal dude who owned both and wrote a review. It was on harmony central.

Oh yeah thats true. I guess I did assume it was a mag.

The only reason I thought that viewpoint could hold some water was because a good amount of people on here play high gain at low-medium volume. I cant find anyone on here who plays clean/low gain, and loud enough to have speakers fart out.

I do. Not all the time but as often as I can. The thing about the review that struck me is I can imagine its a cranked amp through a single 412. Well 4 30W PR speakers will fart out and get muddy. The fact that new celestions stay tighter and clearer is what Id expect from a speaker thats stiff and bright when run in a normal way. Your worried about the speaker being too dark. Your using the normal channel after all. Why would you want anything brighter when already you cant even handle the bright channel? Despite the perception out there most people just use the bright channel. Jumping them is something people do more today than in the 60s. If you want to use one cab and really want high wattage speakers like you suggested its a moot point anyway. They wont have that problem.

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:17 pm

If you want to use one cab and really want high wattage speakers like you suggested its a moot point anyway. They wont have that problem.

Im not sure I follow you.

On a seperate note, as much as some guys on here are going to laugh and think I'm crazy, I for one, am going to straight up buy into the whole original article. The one talking about 6550's and 75 watt rolas. The way his overdrive is so incredibly smooth on who knows, prior to kicking any pedal on, it sounds like only the preamp tubes in the chain are doing it. Speaker distortion from what I can tell, could never be THAT smooth, and output tube distortion breaks up more crunchy and open IMO. Therefore for everything to remain that smooth you need very high efficient speakers, high efficiency tubes, "removing" them from the path of whats causing his overdrive. Which in turn allows you to pump loud volume and remain tight.

So I for one, buy into that article completely, and 100 years from now when I can rub two pennies together and make a few thousand, I will install this stuff and come back and say guys! It worked! or guys! I have arthritis! somebody play my rig and see if it works!

My freinds Music Man IMO can acheive the BOG sound much better at higher volume than my plexi. His rig = 6ca7's, high wattage speakers, and a SS preamp. The thing barely breaks up so I have a ts9 give a smooth push.

If I dont jump straight in to the 6550's I am DEFINITELY putting Electro Harmonix 6ca7's in my plexi. They sound good from first hand experience, get great reviews, and a matched quad is 70 bucks.

The Marshall 1960AV/BV has vintage 30's which are 70 watts and are supposed to have a tame or rolled high end and beefy low end.

I also like the cabs over at mojomusicalsupply.com and their british vintage speakers get good reviews and are a great price. They have a g12h 65 watt with a 47 ounce magnet. Possiblilty. A loaded cab of theirs with those would be like 7-800. Pretty good deal I think. Theyre also 2 hours from my house.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:19 pm

basile865 wrote:
If you want to use one cab and really want high wattage speakers like you suggested its a moot point anyway. They wont have that problem.
Im not sure I follow you.

Because high wattage speakers wont mush out at cranked volumes. Remember Jimi used a whole stack. Even with 25W speakers each cab is dissipating half the power from the amp.

On a seperate note, as much as some guys on here are going to laugh and think I'm crazy, I for one, am going to straight up buy into the whole original article. The one talking about 6550's and 75 watt rolas. The way his overdrive is so incredibly smooth on who knows, prior to kicking any pedal on, it sounds like only the preamp tubes in the chain are doing it.

I dont think your crazy I just dont tink its necessary to say you have to totally believe one or the other. Obvioulsy your not happy as is. Nothing wrong with trying the rout your talking about. As mentioned high wattage speakers arent a bad idea, for one, because you only have a single 412. If you do get someone to put in 6550s I would make sure they also change the bias feed resistors. That will clean up the output.

The Marshall 1960AV/BV has vintage 30's which are 70 watts and are supposed to have a tame or rolled high end and beefy low end.

V30s were originally designed to sound like AlNiCo celestions. They sound good but brand new they are very stiff and bright. Put some high volume hours on them.

I also like the cabs over at mojomusicalsupply.com and their british vintage speakers get good reviews and are a great price. They have a g12h 65 watt with a 47 ounce magnet. Possiblilty. A loaded cab of theirs with those would be like 7-800. Pretty good deal I think. Theyre also 2 hours from my house.

Metro cabs are from Mojo

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:23 pm

I hate asking this but have you tried much just rolling back the volume knob a bit to clean the sound up?

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:59 pm

haha yeah, but with the cables I use I actually loose too much high end when rolling back. It just doesn't sound as rich as I prefer.

I've put a lot of effort into this, and I think probably the weakest link in my chain right now is my speaker cab. Now, I DO jump the channels and I lean on the normal volume a bit more. But today I used only the bright channel and I still get this flubby woofy buzzy low end. I think its the cab as much as speakers. I can hit a single note and the handles on the cab buzz like theyre about to blow out of the cabinet haha. I held onto it and it helped reduce some but its just buzzy as hell. Theyre screwed in tight too, its the handle itself.

In comparison to my friends Music Man on recordings, set up the same, my speakers have a definite scooped mid thing happening, which doesn't sound as good, and there's definitely more drive.

I simply need this rig to stay cleaner longer. This cab/speakers cannot withstand the bass frequencies that are coming out, it doesn't have enough mids, and the high end leaves in a way too much detail. That's the best way I can describe my problem with my sound. Again, this cab is tuned better for the much higher gain DSL.

If being able to control the sound enough to keep it more focused and clear at high volumes requires a full stack, then thats exactly what I'll do. I just need to know if I should use a higher wattage speaker (65-75) and a large magnet or if 30 watt ones will be sufficient.

I mean if you go back and listen to the amount of overdrive coming from jimi's amp on who knows, even at full tilt, and no pedals, its considerably less than my amp - which is using 75 watt speakers.

Given all the information we've uncovered, and lets say we wanted to build somebody a really great rig to cover that tone. We'd take a full stack - super lead 100 watt head, load it with high headroom output tubes, and G12H-30 55Hz? or some sort of 70-75 watt speaker? What do you think dan? I'd think the 30 watt speakers would break up too much, but I suppose its a different ball game running 8 in stead of 4.

Even If we had decided that the higher wattage speaker was the ticket, obviously my 75 watt speakers aren't tuned correctly for this. What would be? Running a full stack of 75 watters would be quite a bit more quiet than a lower wattage speaker loaded stack wouldn't it? I always felt other plexi's I played in stores were considerably louder than mine, but they were always on greenbacks.

Tone-Freak · Post by **Tone-Freak** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:34 pm

Jimi's pickups might be lower or even weaker than what you are using

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:48 pm

Hey guys I'm going to post up a clip of the music man amp jam on my reverbnation page. Just to illustrate, this is exactly how clean I'd like to be up at like 7-8 on the volume knob. Any more gain than that I'd prefer to achieve through a pedal, but this is the tone I want my plexi to sound like. For what its worth, this music man had new EH 6CA7's, and the original 10" alnico speakers from the 70's.

I'll title the clip music man. Its pretty quiet so turn it up and listen with some good headphones if you've got them. I turn up the volume on the guitar in around 2 minutes-ish, so you can get a decent idea around there of how clean I actually want the amp to be. Its just enough to create a sag or compression, a nice push on the single note runs, and a hint of gain. Thats my favorite guitar tone.

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:19 pm

Hey guys I just went through that tone selection thing on Celestions website. I've ruled out the vintage 30's, because in every genre and clip I heard them in, they had way too much high end detail.

Funny enough, in every genre and clip - the 30 watt G12H was my favorite, not based off anything except sound. This doesnt mean I'm decided on them, but so far they're the one.

jcs · Post by **jcs** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:58 am

i own a 1982 music man rd50 1x12,they are fire breathers,tons of volume and punch (the original music man 12 was blown long ago).

maybe you need to check your speakers individually in the cab, you may have some damaged speakers that only shows up with certain frequencies and volumes.

i would play the plexi reissue thru some other cabs to be sure, you HAVE to a-b compare stuff to get a true comparison.

anytime you run a 100 watt marshall thru one 4x12 you can have issues with speakers.

go find an early jcm 800 cab like my 1983-4 version (the best 75s bar none,earlier the better) that will handle a 100 watt amp.

the celestion g12h are decent speakers,other than that save your pesos and get the high power scumbacks (65s or 100s).

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:07 am

basile865 wrote:Hey guys I just went through that tone selection thing on Celestions website. I've ruled out the vintage 30's, because in every genre and clip I heard them in, they had way too much high end detail.

Funny enough, in every genre and clip - the 30 watt G12H was my favorite, not based off anything except sound. This doesnt mean I'm decided on them, but so far they're the one.

You can get the Scumback H55 type (G12H30-55hz) as higher powered speakers.

Its funny that your cab cant handle the low end. YOu have 75watters in your cab. It can handle it. Your playing through the normal channel. Theres a lot of low end content in that overdrive. The bright channel has all the mids. See where you see it as bad that a guy said the scums are like they have a blanket on them compared to celestions, Im shooting for that. Because the celestions are fucking icepicks out of the box. Gimme the dark speakers than I can run the bright channel and not have that bright as hell sound. You wont have that crazy detail. You also have a RI. The one I had was extremely thin and bright. And the one I had was supposed to be one of the better ones. I know scums are expensive so you dont want to look that way but you are about to spend that much on a marshall cab. Your paying that money anyway but your paying for marshalls overhead. Their marketing, endorsements, facilities, insurance, employees, then after all that their profit margin etc...

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:18 am

Man Weber raised his prices a LOT. Theyre more than scumback now. I think they used to be 100-110 and now they're almost 200. *edit* I was looking at the alnico versions and not ceramic. Were the originals ceramic or alnico?

What do you guys think of these:
http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/item.a ... id=9911210" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

4 mojo speakers are less than half of 4 scumbacks - and theyre both 50oz magnet G12H-30 watt speakers.

I was listening to the sound clips on the scumback website and I tended to prefer the H75 to the H55. I dont know why, the H75 just sounded less glassy and bigger. Is 75hz less or more bass response than the 55hz?

Why is the 55hz the one everyone thinks is BOG?

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