Kits For Recording Gear

7string · Post by **7string** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:25 am

Since most of us probably mess around recording on the computer, I thought you guys should know about these. It’s kits for the some of the other gear responsible for the great amp tones we all love. N*ve mic preamps and 1176 comps. The choice vintage clones like your Plexis. These blow away the consumer stuff out now.

This honestly isn’t a spam. Just something I’ve been reading about.
Has anyone built gear like this?

http://www.seventhcirclestudios.com/SCA/SCA.htm

http://www.purpleaudio.com/Product/MC76Kit.html

Pat

Necrovore · Post by **Necrovore** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:55 am

Looks interesting. I bookmarked them for future reading. Right now I have my hands full with trying to figure out how to write MIDI drum tracks through Nuendo, LM-4, Drumkit From Hell.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:53 pm

Necrovore, Yeah I really had a hard time pecking one drum hit at a time into Sonar. I think I've got a good solution. Triggers are easy to build and are dirt cheap. They can be on a small sheet of ply or a full blown acoustic kit. I built a kit from practice pads, it was a little cheesy and my heavy handed drummer friends violated it every time. Now I'm building a set from some old Tama shells and plastic cymbals. I have mesh heads that are pretty quiet. I'll run the MIDI into the computer to trigger DFH and
BFD.

Pat

myker · Post by **myker** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:00 pm

pat,
please tell me more, i want to use triggers in my homemade studio. what software do i need to do this, i have cubase 5.something and SX. how do i make pre recorded drums trigger the drum sounds?
mike

rjgtr · Post by **rjgtr** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:20 am

I just fo it the old fasioned way. I mic a drumset!

Necrovore · Post by **Necrovore** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:47 am

rjgtr wrote:I just fo it the old fasioned way. I mic a drumset!

Not practical in some applications like no room in the house for a drumset or one would rather spend money on guitar gear than a drumkit and no drummer.

myker · Post by **myker** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:15 pm

I just fo it the old fasioned way. I mic a drumset!

drums arent the problem, i have a 1969 ludwig set up in this beeeotch, the problem is drummers...99% of all drummers aren't consistent, don't hit hard enough, have shitty timing, or all. these drummers doom the recordings which sucks for an otherwise good band. so i wanna do a little quantizing and some triggering to remedy this. i have always been so against this "fake" type of recording but what can i do? it makes me look bad when i record a band and the drummer sounds like turd, then they record with someone else who uses triggers and the drummer sounds great. its not good for my reputation as an engineer, thats for sure.
how can you compete when 99% of every major, and now indie label recordings are triggered and quantized?
mike

Necrovore · Post by **Necrovore** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:37 pm

Myker, I know this is taking the thread off topic but do you think you can explain quantizing a bit please? Perhaps start a new thread would be best. I am still trying to wrap my head around what quantizing is.

myker · Post by **myker** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:22 pm

necro, i dont know enough about quantizing to start a new thread, but quantizing from my experience is taking a midi track and hit quantize button and it "tightens" up the track, brings it closer into timing with itself, there are many types of quantizing and i wish i knew more, but i have always tried to get good takes, but sometimes you are never gonna get a good take of some shit-assed drummer.
mike

7string · Post by **7string** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:43 am

Sorry, I didn’t see that anyone had replied. You can use the edrums to record midi to your sequencer program ( Sonar, Cubase, etc.) Edit or quantize to your liking, then play it back with samples like BFD or Drumkit From Hell. You can play the samples in real time as well. I built aluminum crossmembers that go across the center of the shell to mount the piezos. So be careful with your Ludwigs or you’ll scratch the insides of your shells. I used these new Hart Magnum heads that are almost silent. I spent about a grand,but it would have cost 4 grand to go the acoustic route (1k for cymbals, 2k for mic pres, and 1k for enough mics). It is no replacement for the real deal, but I will be practicing my ass off at any time of the night and the recordings shouldn’t be too shabby sounding either. Check out these sites: I built Beatnik’s more involved internal trigger on the e.d. for free site. -Pat

http://edrum.for.free.fr/

http://www.edrumming.com/

rjgtr · Post by **rjgtr** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:42 am

It's funny how many great records were made prior to 1980 with real drummers and they are considered great examples of the recording art, but now everything has to be triggered.

And the typical engineer crap about drummers not hitting hard enough. That is pure bull. Drums are not meant to be beaten at the loudest volume possible. In fact they will sound worse when you do this. You lose all the tone of the instrument when it is overplayed.

Drums like any other instrument are capable of dynamics. Listen to any good drummer and they will be there. That means not everything is at triple forte. It is obvious that a good engineer (I'll use Geoff Emerick or Tom Dowd as examples) can record a drummer who is not playing at ridiculous volumes. And both guys recorded all kinds of great records and often did so with 3 mics on the kit.

The problem most modern engineers have is they don't know how to mic a drumset properly or to use compressors in a natural sounding way. Having every bass drum hit exactly the same volume and perfectly timed takes all the life out of the performance. If you are recording the current style of Metal - fine, trigger everything and don't even bother with mics because it won't matter. But in music where there is emotion and it is about more than technical prowess, don't take the life out of it.

Too many modern records are being destroyed with the trend to make everything "louder than loud" where there are no dynamics. The last Rush record is practically unlistenable because of this kind of mixing.

Sure a lot of drummers have timing issues (use a click) and don't hit as consistantly as we'd like. But not all guitarists can play cleanly either. Music used to be about the performance, not perfection. If music is a technical exercise, then make it all squeaky clean, but I'll take a good honest performance any time.

Rant over...

Post by **VelvetGeorge** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:23 pm

I've spent literally hundreds of hours editing drums. The trick is to get the timing right without loosing the feel. This is next to impossible with quantizing. Although, in Logic you can adjust the quantize parameters to make it not so stiff.
Ultimately, you have to take the time to fix each bar. Or fix a couple versions of each part and paste them on a grid.
I have literally edited full kits down to the 32 notes. I should have carpel tunnel any minute now....

The next thing to master is crossfading. Otherwise your edits will stand out like a sore thumb.

Finally, don't even think it over. If you're editing drums, but a product called Drumagog. Sample the best hits of each drum from your recording and let Drumagog randomly replace the hits in the track.
You can also use it to mix other samples in with the existing sounds. Works great for kicks and snares.

http://www.drumagog.com

George

Post by **VelvetGeorge** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:24 pm

BTW sorry to post off topic. Those Neve style kits look pretty cool. There are some others around the net that are based on the 1272 module as well.

George

rjgtr · Post by **rjgtr** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:41 pm

Oh, yeh and and those Neve kits DO look cool.

Just proof that anything good can be made a DIY project!

P.S. Sorry for the previous rant, but records used to be made without editing the crap out of it and they sound good. Beatles, Pink Floyd, Steely Dan, Layla... Has musicianship deteriorated that much that you can't get a good performance anymore?

7string · Post by **7string** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:34 pm

No worries about going off-topic. It is the off topic forum. Rjgtr, I agree with what you are saying about the real drums and real drummers. I am planning on doing a click track and scratch guitar tracks then laying down MIDI drums just like it was a real drum take. No feel lost. Most listeners won't be able to tell the difference. And my kids will be asleep in the rooms next door. I'm on a solo mission and it seems like the only way to get started. It is just a instrumental noodlehead record i'm working on anyways. Maybe I'll get the acoustics going for the second record, after all the cash comes rolling in.

Pat