Les Pauls

[wdelaney72]

I would like to buy my first Les Paul soon, but I only have about a grand to spend on it. What would be the best one to get at that price. I'm open to different brands but I do not want the studio Gibson. I am willing to buy used. What would you get?

I trust Gibson as much as Marshall and Fender these days and wouldn't give them a red cent.

Have you considered finding a one-off luthier to build you the wood and neck. You could assemble and wire it yourself. This way you can save a bit of money and have some control over the actual wood used. Divebomb has done Les Pauls and his work is very good. He did an explorer body and neck for me and it's pristine.

The other option outside of Gibson is I have a Washburn Idol. It's a $600 overseas built guitar, but I gotta tell you it's a fine piece of wood. I've updated the pickup and pots and I LOVE it.

[jbzoso2002]

I would like to buy my first Les Paul soon, but I only have about a grand to spend on it. What would be the best one to get at that price. I'm open to different brands but I do not want the studio Gibson. I am willing to buy used. What would you get?

if you can get to about $1200-$1500 you will have a lot
of les paul standards to choose from.
my last gibson was sold in the mid 90's and i miss the
shit out of it. i have gone threw 2 ephiphone's in the
last 8 years. the one i have now has had pick ups pots
pu switch bone nut replaced i have about $900 in it
includeing case. its a dam nice guitar, but its no gibson.

i have now begun a quest for a reissue 1959 standard

it may take me 6 months and a couple amps but i will
get one

"IT WILL BE MINE, OH YES IT WILL BE MINE!"

jimmy

[killpop99]

I'll look into the Tokai's, but I am squeamish about shipping from Japan. It might be safe in a hard shell case. I have also looked into the ESP Eclipse. The European version has the cut away like a Gibson and looks really nice. I don't see what is wrong with warmoth either, other than the bolt on neck, but I don't believe that bolt on vs set is that much difference, most of the perceived "tone differences" are because of pickup, wood, bridge, scale lengths, ect. moreso than the neck pocket. Its still pretty pricey though.

[jbzoso2002]

the most important aspect of how a guitar sounds
is the wood quality. then the design + the skill of the builder.
you can swap out electronics all day long, you cant swap
the wood. a bolt on neck is not a les paul.

jimmy

[Flames1950]

The Warmoth Les Paul neck is still a 25-1/2" scale IIRC, in addition to being bolt-on. Ain't gonna build yer daddy's Les Paul with that.

[fillmore nyc]

the most important aspect of how a guitar sounds
is the wood quality.

I agree with that statement, but only about half of it. Wood quality is absolutely key to great tone, but IMO, even with excellent wood selection and excellent construction techniques, the scale length has just as much of an influence on tone. (Of course, it goes without saying that scale length wont matter if the guitar has shitty wood).
PRS is proof of that. Awesome wood, probably the best quality control, construction and attention to detail in the biz, but no matter what pickup is in there, it will always lack the "chunk" factor of a 24 3/4" guitar, which comes down to scale length. Single coils just seem to love 25 1/2" necks, and humbuckers love 24 3/4" necks. That 25" scale is just kinda strange, because IMO, it does neither pickup any justice. HB's lack some punch and balls, and singles lack snap and openness on a 25" guitar.
I've heard (but cant confirm) that this is due to the elliptical pattern that a string vibrates in, and the location of harmonics on the string as well.

a bolt on neck is not a les paul.

+1000 on that.

[killpop99]

I probably won't go with the warmoth, but I would like to point out that they do make 24 3/4 necks.

[lcampz]

the most important aspect of how a guitar sounds
is the wood quality. then the design + the skill of the builder.

I can go with that... but...

That rules out 90% of the Gibsons made in the past 30 to 35 years. Lesser wood quality, derivation from the original design and most of the people who work there (no fault of their own) could not rightfully be considered "builders" much less luthiers. Ask someone who knows the ins and outs of the operation. Take a factory tour. It's factory assembly... one guy does frets, one guy does... ... ... Are there a bunch of highly trained and payed luthiers? It took Gibson this long to figure out they should invest in a plek machine... that they should go back to long tenons. I will never understand the brand love for Gibson or any other. Henry J. is a business man. He cares about "the dough". Ask about the practice of selling serial numbers... before the guitars are built...

Forgive me, this is not a flaming and it's directed non-specifically. But, on this very forum we have had cross section photos showing the difference between tenons, posts detailing how Gibson consistently misses blatant details yet calls their product "Historic", proof positive from Gibson's own people that weight relieving is an art form with them, boggy-fied electronics and parts are all too common and the price is over inflated for the priviledge, and so on and so on... I love the guitars Gibson used to make. It's been a long time. If they are finally getting back around to making great instruments (doubt it) it ain't on the regular... and the price!?!

I understand this is the age where the truth will be called a lie and the lie will be called the truth openly and with vigor. Nevertheless, facts are facts. Tone is in the ear of the beholder. So be it, if someone likes the sound of a 70s+ Gibson, fine. Be happy, buy one, rock the roof off with it. It still doesn't make it a well built instrument if it's not and it still doesn't mean it was built with historical accuracy if it wasn't.

Don't cheer USA, USA and sell me USA made garbage and pee on my American heritage. Cheer USA, USA because you make a truly world class instrument. Make "made in America" mean something. The Japanese sure take pride in their instruments. ESP/Edwards, Tokai, so on... I can't fault them one bit. Gibson and Fender both dropped the ball and they picked it up and ran with it. Who's the wiser, here? I thought Fender was gaining some smarts; but, not if they jump their prices in "the worst economic times since the Great Depression", as they say. Private luthiers here and abroad make WAY better Gibsons than Gibson. I don't get it, we will rightfully drool over a Suhr, a Tyler, a Tom Anderson (aka. STRATS) but when it comes to companies who do Les Pauls better than Gibby (like Heritage, Tokai, private luthiers, etc.) ... suddenly it's all taboo. WTFrik!?! Makes no sense what so ever. Does anyone think twice about chuckin' those crappy Gibson pickups for WCRs... heck no. What is this shrine worship of Gibson guitars...

Gibson brand love makes as much sense as buying a 1987 RI because... oooooooo.... it's a Maaaaarrrrsssshhhaaalllll. Bull crap, we buy Metros. We buy Germinos. We build it ourselves. You do not have to buy a Gibson to get what a Gibson is supposed to give you. It's like buying a Buick in the late 80s early 90s. It's not like you were gonna get a screaming 350/V8.

Awesome wood, probably the best quality control, construction and attention to detail in the biz, but no matter what pickup is in there, it will always lack the "chunk" factor of a 24 3/4" guitar, which comes down to scale length. Single coils just seem to love 25 1/2" necks, and humbuckers love 24 3/4" necks.

One of my LP's is a late '50's Standard, and I've never played anything that even comes close to it, but a comparison to that guitar is kinda unfair. The best '58 or '59 reissue I've seen just cant match it in terms of playability, openness of tone and overall vibe. They're both in the same relative ballpark, but there IS a tangible and audible difference.

This is refreshing. Facts. Scale effects tension, pickup placement, string vibration... ...tone. And coming from someone who actually has a late 50s (aka. REAL) Gibson... ...I value that. Much respect. I've played a handful, couldn't afford them. But, sweet they are.

the highend tokais I've tried kills most new gibsons, including the historics. that's my experience at least. and other players that have compared many of these guitars tend to agree

Tokai are generally thought of a bit more highly than the ESP/Edwards; nevertheless, when I took mine in to the shop ('56 Gold Top copy)... ...these hard core, seen it all before, fixed it all before, played it all before, it's all I do all day techs (not chain store Mr. Fix-Its) were shocked and impressed. I was floored because all I wanted was a roughly $800 guitar that would get me in the neighborhood of that Les Paul sound and wound up getting more than I paid for... considerably. Even if I did what people do with their Gibbys and upgraded electronics only (because the hardware was better than found on Gibs) I'm still ahead of the game, cost to value.

When I bought a Metro kit, all I wanted was an amp that would get me in the neighborhood of a Marshall plexi... ...wound up getting more than I paid for. Same thing when I built my Warmoth strat (but, no, I would not build a LP style guitar from Warmoth parts and I fully agree - bolt on, even at 24 3/4, is just not the same thing.)

Just in case, yes I've owned Gibson Les Pauls, not vintage, but a few... ...sold them all. Don't miss them. They were "ok"; but, "ok" didn't equal the price I paid. Like one of the die hard Gibsonites told me before on this forum - "kick this guys @$$" - but someone make me understand why I should have undying loyalty to the Gibson corporation if 90 - 95% of their current products don't measure up and do not have a good cost to value ratio in comparison to private luthiers and overseas builders. I'm way past that "you can't rock" crap "if you don't have the Marshall name behind you and the Gibson name in front of you", especially if that's a Marshalf BSL and Gibstone Less Paul. How 'bout I vote with my wallet. Maybe I'm just testy today... but, I think not.

[DivebombInc]

Here's a new project for me.

[jbzoso2002]

lcampz, i agree with what you say and i build my own amps
now, and am very happy that i can do that. if i could build
my own les paul i would. i have personally owned around
7 gibson les pauls. all but one were great playing great
sounding guitars. the reason that the 1 wasnt was because
it weighed a metric ton. i want one of those again, and im
gonna get a gibson historic 1959 ri and it will look and sound
and play fantastic. it will cost more than it should but i cant
do anything about that because only gibson makes

Gibson Les Paul Standards

so im stuck with buying a great overpriced guitar. but i will
love all the oooh's and aaah's and what year is that questions
when i pull it out at jam night. instead of the oh its an ephiphone
i get now.

jimmy

[killpop99]

It just sucks that I can't play some of these copies or even the ESP's near where I live. I love humbucker strats, but damn I want a Paul.

[lcampz]

instead of the oh its an ephiphone
i get now.

...and with all the stuff you did to yours it probably sounds better than the next guys "off the rack" Gibson. That's what I just don't get. Do people actually listen to the guitars or just look at them? You probably play ten times better than the chumps who ask you that. They've got a million dollars in gear and can't play twinkle, twinkle without hitting a sour note... pedal board that can control a space station but wouldn't know a g string if a stripper threw it at 'em

7 LP's to get one good one!?! Why should anyone have to go through that; it's shameful. I went through 5 before I gave up. I really do hope the one you get lives up to it's name. Then guard it with a 357 long barrel...

The first electric I ever drooled over was a ferrari red LP custom I saw in a shop in the 80s. Probably, a good thing I never did buy it.

I hope HENRY J. is reading this! Do us all a favor. Turn your WHOLE company around!!! Make every Gibson, a guitar worth owning!!! Go back to the beginning. If need be... take lessons from Heritage (you remember them), Tokai, ESP... the master craftsmen you do have access to. Let them make the decisions. Shave off the BS corporate culture & expenditures, nix the Robot guitar, tame the profit expectancies, get a grip with the price... HENRY... "do you understand the words that are comin' outta my mouth!?!"

[killpop99]

instead of the oh its an ephiphone
i get now.

I figure that anyone who would think less of you because you play a lower cost instrument is someone that is so stupid that their opinion doesn't matter anyway. But thats just my opinion.

[jbzoso2002]

no out of 7 i had 1 bad one. it sounded and played great too
but it must have weighed 12 lbs a silver les paul custom.
70's. the best was my 1985 pre issue. also a 1989 std
tobaco sunburst. great tone stayed in tune for days.
you cant knock those guitars they were great.
all sold due to marrital and economoic probs.
i still cant spell.

jimmy

[Mars Hall]

I would like to buy my first Les Paul soon, but I only have about a grand to spend on it. What would be the best one to get at that price. I'm open to different brands but I do not want the studio Gibson. I am willing to buy used. What would you get?

What I would do is play as many Les pauls as possible in your price range. jbzoso2002 is right about saving a few more hundred to get you to a nice standard. Play the guitars unamplified first. If the guitar sounds good to you unplugged, that tone will translate when amplified. When you find one that sounds good accoustically then plug it in. You'll know the right one by, whether or not, it lets you put it down. The guitar should inspire your playing, almost to the point you are playing better than you normally would.

Aesthetics would be secondary to tone for me.