Gotoh Locking vintage oval knob tuners - mounting screws

[blfrd]

I just bought these:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guit ... uners.html


and while installing the last one, the fucking mounting screw broke in half! Now half the screw is stuck in the headstock and I'll have to cock the tuner to one side to mount it.

I did drill pilot holes too...

On top of that the other screws were so soft, my screwdriver just about stripped them.

Fucking junk.

StewMac was nice enought to send some replacements, but anyone know of a good outlet for screws?

[fillmore nyc]

I just bought these:
and while installing the last one, the fucking mounting screw broke in half! Now half the screw is stuck in the headstock and I'll have to cock the tuner to one side to mount it.

I did drill pilot holes too...

On top of that the other screws were so soft, my screwdriver just about stripped them.

Fucking junk.

That sucks. One thing I do when installing almost any screw like that is rub a side of the screw threads against a dry bar of soap. It acts like a lubricant when putting the screw in, doesnt act like a glue when you go to remove the screw, and doesnt cause the hole to soften up and strip out (unless you go animal with the torque on the screw), but then it woulda stripped the hole soap or not.
It works good on any wood screw (and especially sheetmetal screws into wood, such as neck securing screws going into newly drilled holes in hard maple).

Those little tuner locating screws can be a real fuck, but a little soap on the threads help them in nicely, and makes stripping the heads less likely since the screw is much easier to thread in.


Ivory soap... works great and its 99.9% pure!!


(Dont use Dove... 25% moisturizer)

[blfrd]

The soap trick really helped out.

However....

The high 'E' tuner now has about half a turn of play in it before it will raise or lower the pitch of the string. WTF?
StewMac has agreed to send a single replacement tuner and we'll see if it fixes that.

The high 'E' also has a 'sitar-like' sound when you strike the string open. Even with the string retainer.

I think it might be related to that particular tuner having some loose parts in it or something. WOuld explain the amount of play in it.

I've checked the bridge for loose parts, moved the string off the retainer, just about everything I can think of, to find this 'buzz'.

The only other thing might be the nut

[fillmore nyc]

The soap trick really helped out.

However....

The high 'E' tuner now has about half a turn of play in it before it will raise or lower the pitch of the string. WTF?
StewMac has agreed to send a single replacement tuner and we'll see if it fixes that.

The high 'E' also has a 'sitar-like' sound when you strike the string open. Even with the string retainer.

I think it might be related to that particular tuner having some loose parts in it or something. WOuld explain the amount of play in it.

I've checked the bridge for loose parts, moved the string off the retainer, just about everything I can think of, to find this 'buzz'.

The only other thing might be the nut

Try plucking the string open while you (or someone else) touches the string lightly behind the nut (between the nut and tuner). If the "sitar" noise stops, its either the string itself vibrating (string retainer or not) or it MAY be the tuner itself, especially cause you said it has a lot of slop to it. There just might be some sympathetic vibration of parts inside the tuner going on. Usually that kinda sound does come from somewhere between the nut and tuner. Also try tuning the string to a different pitch to see if the sitar sound stops. That will tell you if the sound you're hearing is strictly a result of mechanical vibration, or if something is vibrating to the pitch of E.

Some stuff from Stew Mac is decent, but some of it (especially the off brand stuff) can be real shit.

[blfrd]

I actually tried that today.

While I plucked the string, I depressed on the string behind the nut. Tried this using the string retainer and not.

Both times, it seemed as if the 'sitar' sound was STILL there.

StewMac agreed to send a single replacement tuner.

Something else I noticed:

How the hell can I stop the springs in the trem cavity from ringing? That makes it harder to pinpoint the sympathetic vibrations down too.....

A permanent solution to the springs vibrating would be nice too...

[fillmore nyc]

Something else I noticed:

How the hell can I stop the springs in the trem cavity from ringing? That makes it harder to pinpoint the sympathetic vibrations down too.....

A permanent solution to the springs vibrating would be nice too...

THAT could be the cause of your sitar sounds too. The solution to that is easy.
Put a small length of electrical shrink tubing INSIDE the trem spring. Just find a piece small enough to fit inside the spring (Radio Shack shrink tube works fine for this kind of thing, and they sell packets of varying diameters). Cut it just a touch shorter than the length of the spring when its NOT under tension, and slide it into the spring. Once the spring is on the guitar, the shrink tube is pretty much invisible, and it does stop those springs from ringing out by acting like a little damper in there. Plus, it doesnt bind up the spring at all when doing trem gymnastics.
Its an old trick to stop power tube retainer springs from rattling, and causing "M.S.M.S." (Metallic Sounding Microphonic Shitty-ness) from coming thru the speakers.


Works great!!

[blfrd]

Went to Home Depot and picked up some shrink wrap.

Had to actually fold the tube in half to get it in there, but I figure it doesn't matter. Just as long as it's in contact. Could always stick something in there to unfold it.

Works like a charm!

The high 'E' tuning machine is still screwed up and causing some noise. You can literally turn it half a turn before the pitch raises or lowers.

Waiting paitently for the mailman.....

[fillmore nyc]

Went to Home Depot and picked up some shrink wrap.
Had to actually fold the tube in half to get it in there, but I figure it doesn't matter. Just as long as it's in contact. Could always stick something in there to unfold it.
Works like a charm!

I didnt even know Home Depot sold small diameter shrink tube, but Im sure it'll work fine. Like I said, you can also use Radio Shack shrink tube, and you wont have to fold it cause it comes in REALLY small diameters (like 1/16"), up to about a 1/2" diameter. (The small shit is small enough to fit inside those thin little springs they use on Marshall power tube retainers).
Its cheap shit shrink tube, but for that application, it doesnt matter... it does the job.

The high 'E' tuning machine is still screwed up and causing some noise. You can literally turn it half a turn before the pitch raises or lowers.

Yeah, that tuner sounds like its blown right out of the box. Just for curiosity, is it a name brand tuner? Usually even Gotoh stuff isnt that bad.
IMO, thats one of the places to not cut corners, the tuning machines. They can make or break a decent guitar.

[blfrd]

Went to Home Depot and picked up some shrink wrap.
Had to actually fold the tube in half to get it in there, but I figure it doesn't matter. Just as long as it's in contact. Could always stick something in there to unfold it.
Works like a charm!

I didnt even know Home Depot sold small diameter shrink tube, but Im sure it'll work fine. Like I said, you can also use Radio Shack shrink tube, and you wont have to fold it cause it comes in REALLY small diameters (like 1/16"), up to about a 1/2" diameter. (The small shit is small enough to fit inside those thin little springs they use on Marshall power tube retainers).
Its cheap shit shrink tube, but for that application, it doesnt matter... it does the job.

The high 'E' tuning machine is still screwed up and causing some noise. You can literally turn it half a turn before the pitch raises or lowers.

Yeah, that tuner sounds like its blown right out of the box. Just for curiosity, is it a name brand tuner? Usually even Gotoh stuff isnt that bad.
IMO, thats one of the places to not cut corners, the tuning machines. They can make or break a decent guitar.

They're GOTOH tuners. The vintage locking kind:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guit ... uners.html

I took the one that is bogus off and then took another one off to compare.

Surprisingly, the post wobbles on both of them but the high 'E' post wobbles a bit more. The metal they used to make these looks like junk pop metal.

They came prepackaged in a StewMac bag, but they're supposed to be Gotoh tuners. They say made in Japan on them.

These are supposed to be the same tuners on my Grosh guitar. They look the same.

Hope the replacement tuner works just fine or I'll be pissed.

[AJW]

I have a lefty set of those tuners on my 60's reverse strat. Stewmac didn't carry the left hand set, but I found them on ebay. It's a simple design, but it seems to work well. I didn't have any problems with the mounting screws. That guitar stays in tune better than my American deluxe strat with the roller nut and locking Schallers.

You probably already know this, but the top of those string posts have a cap that will unscrew completely. Maybe the wobbly ones are just loose. They would probably rattle when loose too. The cap is supposed to tighten up when you tune to pitch locking the string in place.

It does sound like you've got a broken one. Mine are all pretty tight, and although they are hard to turn they don't have any play in them.

[blfrd]

I recieved the replacement tuner and it behaves the same way. 1/4 to 1/2 turn play in it and it does nothing.

Pretty disappointed...

[fillmore nyc]

I recieved the replacement tuner and it behaves the same way. 1/4 to 1/2 turn play in it and it does nothing.

Pretty disappointed...

"Maybe now, you cant hear them... but you will..."

(Sperzel's, blfrd... Sperzel's...)