Jimi and JBL D-120F Speakers

[Xplorer]

Ha ha ha ha ha ! ; ) nice
where is the sound card with pro tools and cubase ?

What plugin did jimi hendrix used ? ; )

[parkhead]

The black hole argument is pretty good, although the danger is if you approach your "data" unscientifically
you will arrive at all sorts of funny conclusions

200 years ago people believed in "spontaneous generation"... thinking that if you left raw meat out overnight,
the meat generated flies and maggots ...
of course we now know that you cant see the flies laying eggs but they are there

The trouble with the JBL 2-15 cab is that however it was used it IMHO is not an essential part of the sound you hear on those recordings ....

since those types of speakers would not enhance the sustain of the Marshalls enough to put the signal on the ceiling the way we hear on Machine Gun

Unfortunately a lot of the info now floating around about guitar tone is being pushed by people selling hardware, when in fact 99% of Tone is in your hands, mind and intellegence...

We all know guitar players who will make any guitar sound out of tune ... and we have all seen a good setup technician
make an old fender tremolo stay in tune like magic ... both are examples of the important roll of the hands and mind in the process

The Traynor YGM3, a Trainwreck and an Early Marshall share several characteristics among them a solid power transformer
the amp may get very distorted, but the raw current keeps comming so while the audio may become completely distorted
the signal never runs out of fuel

It is the Firemans problem... If you want to shoot water 100 feet you need three things
the right angle of spray, a small enough hose opening & enough water pressure
there are many combinations of the three factors that will throw the water 100 feet...
there are 3x as many combinations that will fall short

the power transformer is the water pressure, the player is the angle of attack & the amp circuit is the valve that the pressure flows through

most players now obsess over gain... which is only a small component of the sound, If you read a lot of the stuff
the Van Halen guys have figured out, that particular sound is really about Eddie doing the best he could abusing
a great amplifier as a fuzz box
Eddies later sound uses higher gain to compensate for the amp abuse & does not sound as organic
& most of the 80's shred players used high gain circuits to copy the effect and sounded terrible

A lot of guys build Trainwreck amp clones and do not get the sound and sustain ... if you have your firehose
pointed at the right angle and use a "small valve" apperature just like ken but have low water pressure you can't "throw the signal"

When you listen to Machine gun and hear that the sound does not "come down" off the ceiling till Hendrix dicatates
you are hearing what really happened in the room... even if they re eq'ed the sound in the studio (I have my doubts)

Hendrix really had to have that much signal happening to get something no one else seems to be able to get with that
gear from that era (we've all built the circuits) ... IMHO Machine Gun is the Smoking Gun of heavy Roger Mayer manipulation .... as you all Know when that man does talk there is a lot of misdirection

p

[Xplorer]

i'm quite agree, althought you can also consider that great guitarists are very linked to their gears, their research into this ( jimi hendrix : "i would be nothing without my marshalls" ), if not, they wouldn't care at all of their gear.

at the time, they didn't care like us of the instruments and amps and effects. there wasn't even custom strings, with the choice we have today. but jimi , even if the tone came out of his hands, had roger mayer arround him, eddy kramer, etc ... for what ? for an effort on some guitar characteristics that he prefered for playing.
same for jeff beck who has his choices, even if jeff beck with a 10 $ guitar and a 5 watts amp, ... is still jeff beck.

when you hear the tone recorded from the floor, it is thick, and cleaner i'd say , a bit more hi fi, bassy : the sunn cab. and the sustain we 're talking about might come from the other cabs : it's a compromise, he moves and use effects to have the accent on one tone or another, he plays with it . i think ...

it makes a little difference.
the vocal monitor and the sunn cab, oriented this way make sens, and the sustain and feedback, saturation, come from the usual combination, and disapear if he doesn't need it, so he moves his guitar angle. in search of compromise and accentuations, to make his tone live and change. contrasts, synthesis ...
that's perhaps a key to this rich sound, who is everything at the same time, or only one character, or the other ...

+ the acoustic of the fillmore east, that makes these cabs live. the different recordings sources caught a synthesis.

[parkhead]

not quite

these days

at the "A" level a guitarist will have an audio engineer, guitar tech or sound specialist on hand

the way an actress has a favorite makeup artist, dress designer or photographer

Jimi was the poineer in this regard & Roger Mayer was the guy

When he was doing it it was unheard of ....

However quite a few guys got the hint

& don't forget Roger was school chums with Beck, Clapton and Page

here's another clear example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zcvd8h0YqrM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From 3:15 onwards ... riddle me this Batman ???

which one of these guys has the better "guitar tech"

p

[Xplorer]

i'll hear later cause i'm at my job, but i still think ( and i'm joining you to say it ) that the gears aren't responsible of the guitarist talent ( althought a well tuned strat and amp brings joy and inspiration, pleasure to play, and make you search some accents that sound nice for the ears ) , but talented guitarists allways do researchs with their tone, and not for nothing.

andy summers effect for example, are quite important for his style, because finaly it's using a tool rather than another one, it's not just a guitar, a reduced concept to the idea of one guitar ( what guitar ? ) and an amp ( what amp ? what effects perhaps ? ), for me, it's simply using a particular tool ( the whole setup is a tool ), for a particular purpose sometimes. some tools can be used for many things, some tools can be used for some particular things ...
you can say it's the same for all, or not, it depends...

also, a 5 watts amp won't sound like jimi hendrix setup that night, and jimi hendrix won't make this 5 watts amp sound like this huge setup. there are limits to guitarist talents, into that direction. so these two different tones ... 99% of the tone, in the hand of the talented guitarist ...
mm.. i'm not sure.
is it about tonality or talent ?
this piano has these particular tonal characteristics, this other one has some others ...

[parkhead]

Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about:

I have a vintage car with two SU carberators, the car is fairly stock but a previous owner added a big cam and headers.

Because of this the car would run really rough when cold and would always have a flat spot on the acceleration.

I've studied SU's for 5 years and now and have all of the alternate jets, needles and parts to tune thses things

but still the throttle response would flat spot of you dumped it wide open....

My car buddy always says ... just get webbers... and throw those SU's in the garbage

So I'm re-reading an SU tuning book I bought years ago and near the end there is one line

"If you run a modified engine and you have flat spots you need to drill out these pilot holes since they were never

designed for that kind of airflow" ok out comes the drill ....

I open up the recomended vent hole... put the thing back together with no adjustments

take her for a drive ... hit the gas and get wheelspin ... WOW

With no other changes redline has moved up 1000 rpm & throttle response is HUGE ...

I'm running up the on ramp of a quiet stretch of test highway thinking "nice no flat spot" hit 4th gear and look at the spedo

ahhhhh yikes is that 130 mph ... WTF two 1/8 vent holes

The point is in a full 150 page book on setting up these CARBS the key detail was one line about Hi performance

applications...

My vintage car looks completely stock under the hood. No webbers needed

With regard to guitars there lots of information out there some good some bad... you need to dig hard and not ignore the

little details that might open up a choked amp...

those that make their living "tuning carbs" are not going to guide you to the killer info.

p

[Xplorer]

yeah, i'm sure of it too. and it's not against what i've said, the way i meant it.
the little detail that changes everything is possible, sure ... sometimes, it's a bit different.

about cars ( and what's an SU ? ), here is the one i'm gonna help to build, with a 3d model of the chassis, to make one in carbon, ( originaly, in magnesium ) , and other things i'm gonna collaborate with the builder. a replica. a mould of the bodywork exists, based on a real one.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelwar ... 4068291749" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[parkhead]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFN090M08zk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjpmkfdnNvI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

p

[Xplorer]

ah ok ! i see. cool !

here is he beast with this special soul... ( sorry, not jbl but a lot better ; )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OipSiIwi ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the street version i'm gonna build to 95% exact specs ( carbon parts replacing some original parts, as the bodywork for example ) , sam engine :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5v_jXD_ ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoYQnhdl ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

isn't it "a bit" cool ? ; )

[parkhead]

my friend built this from scratch ...

its a super seven with a 2.9 l nissan datsun
240/280 z engine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZqEo7KdRH0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Xplorer]

cool ! ; ) a lot of fun with this s7 in the snow.
we should probably open a complete new file about cars, guitarist cars, pictures, works ... some links between the pleasure to build an amp and this ^^
we will build this alfa romeo from not much ... ome pictures, an old unscaled and distorted plan ... but we can do exact anyway. sherlock holmes work , just like for BOG

[frenchie]

nice article on the early collaboration between jimi and sunn.....

http://www.guitararcheology.com/tag/the ... xperience/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

apparently jimi first had sunn cabs with horns he later put out to simulate a speaker destruction with a neck through it without damaging the transformers output balance while showing off ....but seems his sunn 2X15 he used most oftenly were of the sunn 200s variety ......noel's sunn 200s cabs were loaded with jbl D140f contrary to jimi's D130f ....

very cool article ....strange thing though the guy claims he was behind jimi's jtm45/100 at the monterey pop festival and he says " while the KT88s were glowing " ...possible as there are quite a few JTM45/100 modified for KT88 ...but it says otherwise to the common mythology around monterey !

[frenchie]

and another article on sunn company ...if you have the courage to read all , the guy in the interview says the company lost 75000 dollars worth of damaged sunn gear with the hendrix experience ...you also got the dimentions of all sunn cabs in it ;

http://www.richbriere.com/Sunn_Shack_2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

loads of info in it !

[parkhead]

anyone wonder what the 60 watt speakers west coast organ reloaded Hendrix cabs with were

they purchased them from Thomas Organ

How 'bout vox lable JBL's

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/ ... n&p=254537" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

p

[frenchie]

just found another nice pic of the reinhalle gig in january 1969 ( 1969 meaning after sunn contract breakage )



this one is pretty self explanatory