Debate on Eddie's Plexi

[YMI5150?]

has anyone put a date stamp on the board shot? I've sourced the .022 brown caps (not brown drops) and added them last night. I got to play very attenuated for a few minutes. definitely something to those as far as adding sizzle.

[rgorke]

has anyone put a date stamp on the board shot? I've sourced the .022 brown caps (not brown drops) and added them last night. I got to play very attenuated for a few minutes. definitely something to those as far as adding sizzle.

Can you post a picture on what you have?

[YMI5150?]

here are the first few stages of my board as of today. still waiting on some other goodies. its getting there.

note the silver brush mark on the top. i thought it was a reflection on the shot of Eds board.

they're old menco mylar dipped caps. leads were shot so i had to sacrifice the mustards that were there previously...

how about the date on Ed's board shot? Anyone? the tone I'm getting seems to verify that the general layout could be period correct for the first record. those mustards are much warmer.

IMG_1635.JPG (212 KiB) Viewed 3293 times

[rgorke]

I have been going back and forth between the chicklet on V1B and a mustard .68. I keep coming back to the mustard.

So you have .022 on V2a and .0022 on V2b?

I also tried the silver mica caps in the tone stack and mixer and went back to ceramic (RS, I think). The silver micas seemed harsher.

[YMI5150?]

I have been going back and forth between the chicklet on V1B and a mustard .68. I keep coming back to the mustard.

So you have .022 on V2a and .0022 on V2b?

I also tried the silver mica caps in the tone stack and mixer and went back to ceramic (RS, I think). The silver micas seemed harsher.

had to pull out my cheat sheet...no, .68 mustard on v2a.

.022 menco on v1a bypass and .0022 on v1b bypass.

my goal right now is to get the correct components on the board, evaluate, then adjust to taste. each component; down to the construction of said component, seems to have a significant impact on tone so I'm reserving judgement until its complete. ive got modern cement resistors that need to go away. that will warm things up. replacing mustards with the mencos definitely added sizzle. if its too much, I know how to tame it.

The experience is awesome. Great thread.

[rgorke]

I have been going back and forth between the chicklet on V1B and a mustard .68. I keep coming back to the mustard.

So you have .022 on V2a and .0022 on V2b?

I also tried the silver mica caps in the tone stack and mixer and went back to ceramic (RS, I think). The silver micas seemed harsher.

had to pull out my cheat sheet...no, .68 mustard on v2a.

.022 menco on v1a bypass and .0022 on v1b bypass.

my goal right now is to get the correct components on the board, evaluate, then adjust to taste. each component; down to the construction of said component, seems to have a significant impact on tone so I'm reserving judgement until its complete. ive got modern cement resistors that need to go away. that will warm things up. replacing mustards with the mencos definitely added sizzle. if its too much, I know how to tame it.

The experience is awesome. Great thread.

I just bought some off of ebay, the mencos that is. I noticed on Ed's that there is a menco in the PI input as well.

[SteadyEddie]

.022 menco on v1a bypass and .0022 on v1b bypass.

You mean coupling. Those caps aren't bypassing anything.

[YMI5150?]

Yep

[rgorke]

Just bypassing the right name and typing too fast. Thanks forthe correction.

[SteadyEddie]

What's a menco cap? This is the kind of thing that Ben would get off on. He liked trying different cap types, as they all have their own sound.

[Ted B]

It's a brand of standard mylar (polyester) capacitor, as opposed to the metalized polyester of the original Phillips 'mustard' type.

[rgorke]

What's a menco cap? This is the kind of thing that Ben would get off on. He liked trying different cap types, as they all have their own sound.

that is exactly right!!

[SteadyEddie]

It's a brand of standard mylar (polyester) capacitor, as opposed to the metalized polyester of the original Phillips 'mustard' type.

Weird, I thought Mustards were film and foil, not metalized.
Some people like the smooth, dark sound of mustards. I haven't tried mustards but I tried sozos which are supposed to be similar. They do sound vintage, but not right for VH. They seem to take out some of the response and attack, make the amp less "quick" to my ears.

[YMI5150?]

This experience is showing me that its all about the right combination. understand the characteristics of each construction and blend them. Yes, mustards are smooth, warm and musical, polys add sizzle and are on the harsh side. sozos might not be right all by themselves but i'm sure if you noodled enough you could figure out the right cocktail.

you can bet that each cap, both value and construction was chosen for a specific purpose on his amp. Exactly why DF didn't have much of an issue giving out the basic formula. its only part of the equation. Its the very reason why some plexis sounded better than others and all sounded different. it appears that that era only spec'd the value.

i certainly wouldnt expect to buy a few of these and expect to nail the tone.

heck, you could have excessive sizzle and tame it with a prerola cone, or have a mellow amp and add some harshness with blackbacks. its all about the big picture.

[Ted B]

Weird, I thought Mustards were film and foil, not metalized.
Some people like the smooth, dark sound of mustards. I haven't tried mustards but I tried sozos which are supposed to be similar. They do sound vintage, but not right for VH. They seem to take out some of the response and attack, make the amp less "quick" to my ears.

You're right. Just a goof on my part. Most contemporary mylar (polyester) caps are metalized. The mustards (and Sozos) are film and foil.

The Sozo Vintage definitely add a vintage flavor and aren't 'fast', just as vintage transformers aren't 'fast' like certain repros. I'd say the regular Sozos are probably better for copping VH, and part of the early VH sound may very well be an artifact of substituting alternate caps for the mustards. FWIW, the info I find on those El Mencos are they are mylar/paper (dual dielectric film ) and foil.