Ed's 1978 touring rig.

[Good Guest]

Regardless if it was Rudy, it just seemed logical.

Marshall with a variac
line out/load box

Essentially a preamp to several heads acting as power amps.

Rockstah did it. Sounded great!

Yep and (Robin) was adamant about how the power amps had to be set up for the darkest tone possible..I remember that being pretty good info and right too...actually that follows EVH's explanation on why so many gain stages in his branded amps..he always says to smooth out the tone...

I think that was half the problem..Robin would have an explanation and put the pieces together for people and they would say .."that is common knowledge" , unfortunately they don't have the intel to put the pieces together..he did.

Kinda like a similar thread where pics exist but they can't put the pieces together ,,,,they want everyone else to figure it out for them so they can say ..OHHH this is common knowledge..now fuck off....seriously these people don't deserve an once of EVH tone....probably why a secert underworld at metro is devleloping.

[Marshall SL12301]

So this guy was for real? i was not a member when he was posting

I think it was determined that it was NOT Rudy. Dave Friedman (who knows Rudy personally) asked him some questions that I thought were not responded to.

Cool thanks for clearing that up roger

[Marshall SL12301]

Regardless if it was Rudy, it just seemed logical.

Marshall with a variac
line out/load box

Essentially a preamp to several heads acting as power amps.

Rockstah did it. Sounded great!

Yep and (Robin) was adamant about how the power amps had to be set up for the darkest tone possible..I remember that being pretty good info and right too...actually that follows EVH's explanation on why so many gain stages in his branded amps..he always says to smooth out the tone...

I think that was half the problem..Robin would have an explanation and put the pieces together for people and they would say .."that is common knowledge" , unfortunately they don't have the intel to put the pieces together..he did.

Kinda like a similar thread where pics exist but they can't put the pieces together ,,,,they want everyone else to figure it out for them so they can say ..OHHH this is common knowledge..now fuck off....seriously these people don't deserve an once of EVH tone....probably why a secert underworld at metro is devleloping.

This does make for a great tone regardless if this robin was for real or not,i tried a load box for my YJM before i sold it and it sounded really close to VH I but i never claimed thats what eddie did or nothing BUT I liked the tone this way.
I am at the point of tone chasing where IF i get it to sound close enough and am able to dime all the knobs on a PLEXI type amp i am happy enough.
After a i build me metro/freidman 12XXX i am going to do this agian and post clips finally.

[mr ohmite]

if you read cameron/mr freidman and robin L's posts and filter out leadguy [BAN!}and the peanut gallery the knowledge dropped is so amazing and SIMPLE
then compare it to rockstah and ralle's lab results you can really start to unlock it in real world parameters
the big X factor is ed's hands/brain/soul/heart as evidenced in that steven rosen interview

[leadguy]

As far as I remember this is how it went down.

Mark Cameron was saying Ed was slaving back in the 70s, so I asked him for some more substantial evidence than just his opinion and nothing much was produced.

All I was saying is that without some evidence, then it's just opinions and opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.

ROBIN L. copied Mark Cameron's slaving theories and then twisted Ed's 1977 and 1978 photos to be slaving setups.

ROBIN L. just used Mark Cameron and Ed's 1977 and 1978 photos and put together his own theory.

ROBIN L. had EQ loops and slaving and more.

But, in the 1978 photos, Ed has a CLASSIC DAISY CHAINED AMP SETUP and that is not slaving and ROBIN L.'s EQ loop theory is built around one of the DOTG photos with Ed on the Destroyer and the EQ input with a lead going into it and the other DOTG photo shows the EQ input not even plugged in, so this contradicts a EQ loop theory.

So I tried to ask ROBIN L. about these inconsistencies and he/she basically ignored them and turned a bit nasty.

Dave Friedman checked out whether ROBIN L. was Rudy Leiren because ROBIN L. appeared on the forum like he was Rudy Leiren, and he wasn't, and I think Dave sort of dismissed him after that.

Dave Friedman has said that the 1978 amp photos are just daisy chaining and anyone who knows how to daisy chain (not that hard) should be able to see the daisy chained setup.

Ed's 1979 amp photos are not daisy chained, and there seems to be a master switcher controlling what heads are on/off and Ed mentions this sort of thing in 1979 interviews as well.

So it looks to me (and Dave Friedman) that Ed was not slaving anything in the 1970s and that's about all I've said about it, but Mark Cameron and ROBIN L. didn't seem to like what I was saying and so I asked them to contradict what I and Dave Friedman had said and nothing much came forth except for some nastiness.

Basically there was Dave Friedman saying Ed didn't slave in the 70s and Mark Cameron and ROBIN L. saying that he did and it was Ed's big secret at that time and Dave Friedman asked Rudy Leiren about Ed slaving and Rudy said no slaving was done until much later and all I was saying was that Ed's 1978 amp photos didn't seem to be setup for slaving but were daisy chained.

Personally, I couldn't give a shit if Ed was slaving in the 70s or not, all I was saying (and Dave Friedman) was that Ed's 1970s amp photos were showing daisy chaining and not slaving.

To me, the whole thing was a lot of hot air BS and I wouldn't even participate in it if I could do it all again because it was like some sort of stupid game with some peoples pet theories being pushed forward as certain facts and certain people supporting one side's theories or the other.

Some people around here seem to want to swallow anything without questioning.

Whatever.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4SJ0xR2_bQ[/youtube]

[Marshall SL12301]

I have a real good idea of who exactly ROBIN L may have been
N***O

[leadguy]

It is viable to slave, then daisy-chain - all in the same (big-ass) rig. Makes perfect sense.

EVH: See, I use a combination of two different amps. They're both Marshalls, but one of them is actually lower-powered, and the other one is boosted. I use 'em together.

1985 Interview w/ Rudy Leiren:

http://wwwc.dcns.ne.jp/~epi/rudy1985.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This Marshall top powers two H&H power amps so the sound of the Marshall is reproduced
across the entire stage. In the past, multiple Marshall heads performed the job but with
this configuation the problem arises-as soon as a step is taken to either side of the cabinet
the sound is radically altered.

The load-line level box:

Jose Arredondo built a few prototypes for Ed.
The one used by Ed on the 1978 world tour featured 2 inputs, a volume knob, and 3 line level outputs.
That volume knob was used to control the overall stage volume of the rig.
The 2 inputs were fed with the speakers outputs of the main plexi and the 50 watt smallbox plexi.
Both were loaded, but the amp not in use was kept on standby (he didn't use both simultaneously).
So, there were 3 line level cables tapped from the resistive load feeding the top left inputs of 3 Marshall superleads.
The volume on those amps was set at 9'o clock for a clean sound with just a tad of grit.
Ed mainly used 3 stacks, but only the bottom cabs were wired.
It must be said that Ed was really concerned about protecting his hearing from loud stage volumes (in 1984 things got really insane soundwise).
For bigger venues, he'd need up to ten amps-ten bottom cabs, so the extra needed heads were daisy-chained with the first 3.
The overall volume of the rig was set with an adjustable pot located right next to 3 tapped lines out of the resistive load.
An overly loud line level signal would make the 3 amps distort, so the pot was adjusted for no distortion, but it was damn loud anyway.
The main plexi and its backup smallbox plexi were dimed (all 6 knobs on 10) and variac'ed (set for 90 volts).

Jeez, that amp photo is Ed's 1979 rig and not 1978.

ROBIN L. couldn't even get that right.

The 1979 rig is basically just a master amp switching system according to Ed.

ROBIN L. took Mark Cameron's theories about slaving and Jose load boxes and came on here telling some people the story that they wanted to hear.

There are lot's of holes in his story.

Don't let things like facts and timelines get in the way of a good story.

FWIW the Jose load box was apparently discovered by Mark Cameron around 2000 or whatever and how this has anything to do with Ed in 1978 is beyond me.

When Ed slaved he was using a Bob Bradshaw designed load and not that Jose load box thing.

In this forum, we have secret pedal theorists, EQ theorists, slaving theorists, and who knows what theorists and what we don't have much is straight out rig theorists because that is too obvious and agrees with Ed, Rudy and Dave and it's just too simple and it's more fun to pursue and talk about kinky off the wall things.

[Good Guest]

As far as I remember this is how it went down.

The big problem with opinions from Van Halen camp leaders are the disclosure agreements.....especially when it comes to the technical tone secret stuff.....think about it leadguy if there were no secrets at all the insides of EVH's magic amp would be all over the place by now , instead of leaked info from old shop owners that find a pic in a drawer, and IF he used highly classified techniques , plenty of EVH fans would be achieving the tone at nauseum....instead of stumbling on too -close but no cigar- tones, by connoisseurs with period correct everything and just tasting a tidbit and sniffing a cork here and there or finding some electronic equipment in an old shop wheer EVH modded his amps.

Were kind of on our own on this one and have to put pieces together as we get them....We do know a 12 series spec plexi is a must have bare bones starting point and the sky is the limit when it comes to everything else.

Pics are a gold mine of info tho ..especially pics done spontaneously by fans and not staged or posed...this is where a secret can be exposed...even if expiry dates exist on disclosure agreements there may still be lots of respect and ethics involved especially with these beyond middle aged dudes and there are many tens of millions of dollars riding on the EVH brand, maybe 100's of millions...that says it all..don't expect anything on a silver latter and expect mis and dis information if yer getting close from insiders. There are probably a stadium full amount of friends and family depending on this brand.

The ebay has been generous over the years with info with some dudes selling their acquired and verified EVH gear like the "golden amp" and "variacs" etc. Some with said unstaged real pics chalked full off info. The Robin guy could of been a roadie using the anonymity of the internet for some sock puppet heroism or could of been a forumite with lots of time on their hands. We'll never know.

[leadguy]

I don't know why Rudy would be telling tales to Dave Friedman.

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... 6&p=284854" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rudy has said this to Dave.

Look there was no slaving of any amps until 1984 tour everything was in front of the amps and yes hiss Rudy Leiren told me that. Its not all that hard his signal chain into a stock Marshall with 6ca7s biased hot droped with a variac. In these pics he is using telefunken tubes that he use to buy at the tv repair store[ this was told to me by him] Dave

Very simple. Rudy leiren told me personally. Flange phase echoplex into a marshall with variac to 90 into only one cab. The univox echo or whatever was only patched into the chain for eruption he also used a eq for eruption. Eq was also occasionally used for tone shaping with amps that did not sound as good. This was the core setup. As more vol was needed more amps were added and more cabs but sill only one per amp. There really is nothing more to it. Lots of sustain and feedback from the sheer vol of it all. Now ed was always experimenting and still does to this day so there might have been some mishaps along the way like tubes melting etc. No lying just things not explained the right way out of a lack of technical knowledge.

Well here is what i was told by Rudy Leiren his long time tech. This was just last week. His setup was flanger phaser echoplex amp. His main 100 watt was used on everything. The bias was turned all the way up and the variac was set to 91v. into only 1 cab. There is a pic of the early days with a 50 watt and a vox. He told me the 50 was a back up to the 100 and the vox was a last ditch back up. He often borrowed amps for his back ups. In fact he told me a story that at a party they were playing ed blew a fuse in his main amp and did not have a backup and had to rum home to get a fuse while the band was playing. After this he always made sure he had a backup. Now Rudy said the eq pedal was used only for certain guitars or sometimes when he used rental gear that sounded bad. Also the univox echo was patched in by hand for eruption only and then was taken out of the chain after. Later there was another cab on Mike side that was driven from another amp they used a splitter to do this. As time went on more cabs where used and so where more amps. The amps would only drive one cab though. Now he did say ed was always trying shit but would always come back to this set up. This info follows everything ed has ever said to me personally. Also when 84 hit he changed his set up to H&H power amps and some different effects etc. He still used a cab off the head though no load resister. The Load resister came for the 5150 tour.

[leadguy]

As far as I remember this is how it went down.

The big problem with opinions from Van Halen camp leaders are the disclosure agreements.....especially when it comes to the technical tone secret stuff.....think about it leadguy if there were no secrets at all the insides of EVH's magic amp would be all over the place by now , instead of leaked info from old shop owners that find a pic in a drawer, and IF he used highly classified techniques , plenty of EVH fans would be achieving the tone at nauseum....instead of stumbling on too -close but no cigar- tones, by connoisseurs with period correct everything and just tasting a tidbit and sniffing a cork here and there or finding some electronic equipment in an old shop wheer EVH modded his amps.

Were kind of on our own on this one and have to put pieces together as we get them....We do know a 12 series spec plexi is a must have bare bones starting point and the sky is the limit when it comes to everything else.

Pics are a gold mine of info tho ..especially pics done spontaneously by fans and not staged or posed...this is where a secret can be exposed...even if expiry dates exist on disclosure agreements there may still be lots of respect and ethics involved especially with these beyond middle aged dudes and there are many tens of millions of dollars riding on the EVH brand, maybe 100's of millions...that says it all..don't expect anything on a silver latter and expect mis and dis information if yer getting close from insiders. There are probably a stadium full amount of friends and family depending on this brand.

The ebay has been generous over the years with info with some dudes selling their acquired and verified EVH gear like the "golden amp" and "variacs" etc. Some with said unstaged real pics chalked full off info. The Robin guy could of been a roadie using the anonymity of the internet for some sock puppet heroism or could of been a forumite with lots of time on their hands. We'll never know.

I don't believe half of that.

It's all too conspiracy theory based for me.

I don't think Ed was anything else except a talented player driving a Plexi the way he liked.

People can believe Mark Cameron/ROBIN L. or they can believe Rudy Leiren/Dave Friedman, it's up to them.

I'll just add that so far, the theories that seem to have the lesser contradictions tend to point towards Rudy Leiren/Dave Friedman.

[blfrd]

It is viable to slave, then daisy-chain - all in the same (big-ass) rig. Makes perfect sense.

EVH: See, I use a combination of two different amps. They're both Marshalls, but one of them is actually lower-powered, and the other one is boosted. I use 'em together.

1985 Interview w/ Rudy Leiren:

http://wwwc.dcns.ne.jp/~epi/rudy1985.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This Marshall top powers two H&H power amps so the sound of the Marshall is reproduced
across the entire stage. In the past, multiple Marshall heads performed the job but with
this configuation the problem arises-as soon as a step is taken to either side of the cabinet
the sound is radically altered.

The load-line level box:

Jose Arredondo built a few prototypes for Ed.
The one used by Ed on the 1978 world tour featured 2 inputs, a volume knob, and 3 line level outputs.
That volume knob was used to control the overall stage volume of the rig.
The 2 inputs were fed with the speakers outputs of the main plexi and the 50 watt smallbox plexi.
Both were loaded, but the amp not in use was kept on standby (he didn't use both simultaneously).
So, there were 3 line level cables tapped from the resistive load feeding the top left inputs of 3 Marshall superleads.
The volume on those amps was set at 9'o clock for a clean sound with just a tad of grit.
Ed mainly used 3 stacks, but only the bottom cabs were wired.
It must be said that Ed was really concerned about protecting his hearing from loud stage volumes (in 1984 things got really insane soundwise).
For bigger venues, he'd need up to ten amps-ten bottom cabs, so the extra needed heads were daisy-chained with the first 3.
The overall volume of the rig was set with an adjustable pot located right next to 3 tapped lines out of the resistive load.
An overly loud line level signal would make the 3 amps distort, so the pot was adjusted for no distortion, but it was damn loud anyway.
The main plexi and its backup smallbox plexi were dimed (all 6 knobs on 10) and variac'ed (set for 90 volts).

Jeez, that amp photo is Ed's 1979 rig and not 1978.

ROBIN L. couldn't even get that right.

The 1979 rig is basically just a master amp switching system according to Ed.

ROBIN L. took Mark Cameron's theories about slaving and Jose load boxes and came on here telling some people the story that they wanted to hear.

There are lot's of holes in his story.

Don't let things like facts and timelines get in the way of a good story.

FWIW the Jose load box was apparently discovered by Mark Cameron around 2000 or whatever and how this has anything to do with Ed in 1978 is beyond me.

When Ed slaved he was using a Bob Bradshaw designed load and not that Jose load box thing.

In this forum, we have secret pedal theorists, EQ theorists, slaving theorists, and who knows what theorists and what we don't have much is straight out rig theorists because that is too obvious and agrees with Ed, Rudy and Dave and it's just too simple and it's more fun to pursue and talk about kinky off the wall things.

Christ.... 1978 was 30+ years ago.
Ask anyone about a grainy photo from 30 years ago and ask them to explain in detail is.... setting expectations too high.

When you read Robin's explanation, it's completely plausible and logical. The slaving system sounds like it evolved out of necessity.

It's very well possible that EVH just ran a daisy chained rig, like others have said too.

We have a hell of a lot of people saying shit and no one testing any of these theories out (except Rockstah and damn... his jose lineout/loadbox slave setup sounded real good).

So, essentially it's anyone's guess as to what Ed's rig was like, back then.

Until someone runs a detailed analysis... (like building a couple amps for slaving, per spec) and posts clips.....the debate is pretty pointless.

[vanhalen5150]

Secret underground? Is there a secret handshake? "He-man women haters club" with Spanky, Alfalfa and Buckwheat? Some of you are too young to get that.

[Good Guest]

Yep ..must be getting old...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBIC8JTQMMQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[spaceace76]

draw any conclusion you like. when checked for accuracy and credibility ROBIN L had basically nothing going for him. a few mistakes here and there are fine, it's been 30+ years. but Friedman has spoken to Rudy and Ed in person and even rebuilt the main head, AND provided the specs here for us. So he questions ROBIN a bit on his identity and was never able to establish anything. This is the biggest factor for me. The fact that he knew a thing or two about slaving wasn't interesting or compelling whatsoever. Why?

Because this is the Metro EVH forum. You're telling me we don't have a single member who knew how to properly slave at the time that post was written? You're telling me we don't have the best collection of techs and Ed heads that are desperately pouring over decades old info to work out just how Ed did what he did? There's a good reason why everyone has been butting heads lately. We all want to know how it's done but we are unable to face the truth.

Some things just can't be known. You'll never be able to go back in time and check out Ed's setup for yourself. You just can't. There also hasn't really been any new info in quite some time. With all that uncertainty and all that passion clashing, it's no wonder pet theories have been dividing everyone. A select few are trying to just base their ideas solely on facts. some have the hail mary in mind and are trying off the wall ideas. Others have crazy ideas but find a way to great sound. GG mentioned how if the secret was out then tons of people would get the sound with no problem. I think he is wrong here, i think that plenty of people have gotten dead nuts EVH sound and I think anyone who follows those recipes or does some work to develop a recipe that works best for them will get it too.

Secret specs? NDA's? doesn't sound like it to me. Think whatever you like but this style of music is no longer on the forefront of what's popular, Ed is well paid for what he does now and really has no reason to hold onto secrets like this.

[spaceace76]

you can just as easily say he is referring to just daisy chaining alone. not slaving with marshall heads. english is a funny language, and the phrasing isn't very clear. he could also be talking about an early slaving rig, maybe just from a few months prior. again, the specifics aren't there and the clarity of his words is lacking a bit. case not so closed