12xxx Output transformers...opinions please.

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BrownSound1
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12xxx Output transformers...opinions please.

Post by BrownSound1 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:31 pm

The last thing I have to buy for my build is an output transformer. I've heard so many great clips in these threads, but I swear I am just stumped on what to buy. From what I can tell, several consider a 2" high impedance OT is best for early VH tones. Are there any here who prefer a 1.5" C1998 type? To clarify, my objective is not necessarily to get the VH1 tone per se, but rather get in the ballpark of the first three albums. :D (Maybe even Fair Warning too) ;)

Anyway, I love the time and effort that you guys have put into your amps. These things have been truly inspirational to see and hear.
Why is it we can remember where all the wires go, but can never find a pick?

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Re: 12xxx Output transformers...opinions please.

Post by emmjaydubya » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:31 pm

I am hardly qualified to say a word about OTs since I am very much a rookie at this, but I will say I've done alot of reading on here! I picked a high impedance 132 for my build because I heard Ralle's clip and liked it, the other guys on the forum who tried the stock 132 said it had a different quality in the lower frequencies which intrigued me, plus there was alot of speculation about the photo of the back of Ed's amp and which OT it was (some thought 132). Basically I wanted to start with something different and take a chance. I didn't want it to be like the loud metal panel 100 watters that I've owned in the past, but the jury is still out since I have yet to fire it up...

Here's a few quotes from the 'Debate on Eddie's plexi' thread, Dave Friedman:
RACKSYSTEMS wrote:Jeez the pic was taken some how after I got my hands on it. This is the state it is in now. V1 820/.68 v2 820 330uf. Originally v2 .68 and 470uf supposedly. Stop all this silly stuff it was a stock 12 series amp with 2 changes the 470uf on v2 with a .68. Filtering of that era and a slight change in the feedback circuit. I won't say anymore. Remember you are trying to recreate a recorded tone. Its not how the amp sounded in the room period. Add the signal chain and the bias turned all the way hot and then dropped with the variac and also remember it had a latter jmp output transformer and choke installed at some point.
And Plexified has lots of interesting thing to say (along with colorful prose) about magnetics and their influence on sound (look up his old posts) along with saying much the same thing about Ed's OT:
plexified wrote:I believe Ed got the amp with the origional transformers . Mainly because he said Jose beefed up his amps . He was right . Because he blew up the origional ot in his experiments and went to Jose , right down the road . Here Jose put in a JMP output . Much lower impedence , physically larger and would absolutly define 'beefing up ' a 12 series 100 watter . It would be much louder and ballsier . A 12 series is more like a loud 50 watt plexi rather than a Metal Panel 100 watter or Ali chassis 100 .
I assume they are both talking about a C1998?

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Re: 12xxx Output transformers...opinions please.

Post by BrownSound1 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:11 am

Thanks for your reply. I know exactly what you mean with Ralle's clips on that Marstran transformer, excellent.
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Re: 12xxx Output transformers...opinions please.

Post by julkke » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:04 am

Strat78 made some clips using both 1.75" and 2" ot I think. I much preferred the 1.75". Check it out, it's on some of the first pages of his build thread, which is worth a couple of reads anyway. ;)

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Re: 12xxx Output transformers...opinions please.

Post by emmjaydubya » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:09 am

^^^Absolutely true, great thread!

Some speculation on Ed's OT from an early photo, page 2 gets interesting:

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=32600

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Re: 12xxx Output transformers...opinions please.

Post by BrownSound1 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:15 am

julkke wrote:Strat78 made some clips using both 1.75" and 2" ot I think. I much preferred the 1.75". Check it out, it's on some of the first pages of his build thread, which is worth a couple of reads anyway. ;)

I have been all over that thread, but thanks for bringing it up because I went back to listen again. It seems that the 2" OT was a 1203-32 with the lower impedance primary. I did like the 1.5" a bit better than the 2" in those particular clips. However, if I compare Ralle's clips of the Marstran 132 with the higher primary, then I think I like it a bit better. Might be just time to break out the drill for some more holes. :D
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Re: 12xxx Output transformers...opinions please.

Post by Strat78 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:18 am

Sounds like you already made up your mind.

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Re: 12xxx Output transformers...opinions please.

Post by BrownSound1 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:47 pm

Not entirely. :D Strat, you went with a MM high impedance?
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Re: 12xxx Output transformers...opinions please.

Post by Strat78 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:13 pm

a Dognall clone is fine and is probably what was in the 12301 amp anyway. The magnetic orientation of the 12 series chassis is perhaps most important of all, plexifield explains this somewhere.

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Re: 12xxx Output transformers...opinions please.

Post by BrownSound1 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:34 am

Strat78, I must say that your thread down below is truly inspirational. If I can get even half as close as you guys then it will be a win. I may just start of with a Dagnall clone, and experiment. There are some clips in the Eddie debate thread of stock Metros that killed. I appreciate you guys taking time to respond.

I have pretty much everything else in hand for the amp...thank God for Valvestorm.
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Re: 12xxx Output transformers...opinions please.

Post by julkke » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:09 am

I think an original dagnall c1998 from a 68 tremolo amp is in Ed's amp at the moment.

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Re: 12xxx Output transformers...opinions please.

Post by BrownSound1 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:31 pm

It appears that the 2.2K impedance was a joke by ******, to mess with the EVH crowd. C1998 it is then.
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Re: 12xxx Output transformers...opinions please.

Post by julkke » Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:50 pm

Nice choice. ;)

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Re: 12xxx Output transformers...opinions please.

Post by emmjaydubya » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:09 am

Well I wouldn't call it a joke necessarily. He did pull a 2.2k from a '67 and said it sounded great. But that's a '67 which is probably a 10,000, not a 12,000. Sounds like he was just baiting the VH chasers for fun, it doesn't mean a 2.2k isn't legit. The question is, is a higher impedance tranny going to get you closer to VH? Seems to me there are many ways to get close, so it doesn't really matter. I wanted the bigger trans with more iron and thought I would take a chance on higher impedance because I'm not just wanting VH but other things too, depending on playing style. But I digress, sounds like you made a good choice.

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Re: 12xxx Output transformers...opinions please.

Post by BrownSound1 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:21 pm

I am now waiting on some email responses for pricing and such. Looking forward to getting something here so I can get this thing assembled. I have been looking for those .68uF Chicklet caps on eBay too, but of course none are popping up now that I want one. :) That is my general luck.
Why is it we can remember where all the wires go, but can never find a pick?

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