Music Theory and Eddie's Scale Choices

[mightymike]

Getting back to the subject at hand.. Which is Music Theory and Eddie's Scale Choices

On that we might agree that people over think it. Becasue while he knew music theory, it was just a foundation for learning how to play. He created probably like most by noodling from all his influences. His music composition classes helped him to frame them into palatable songs for the masses.. In the begining he was at his most experimental, but as he created a bag of tricks, he seemed to go back to them on subsequent songs.

The chord progression in Dance the Night Away and Panama have similarities. It's been a while but I think he uses some inverted chords. Also the bend a note, then tap like in Panama is a lick he does on many solos. He pretty much stays in the Major, Minor Scales, and Pentatonics, but will venture out if it sounds right.

It's not rocket surgery. While a music theory analysis of his music might be interesting, the best thing for learning it is a slow down program, Tab, and Curt Mitchell DVD's..

A bad ass 12000 series doesn't hurt either..

[garbeaj]

I don't know how we can either confirm or deny whether or not Ed has any knowledge of music theory. He may or may not have rudimentary theory or he may have advanced knowledge of arcane theory. Know one knows for sure and I doubt whether this will ever be proven.

I think we would all do well to return to the O.P. and try to have more of the guys that know music theory post their application of theory to what Ed played.

[mightymike]

[Santi]

I think you guys are going on too much about the issue. While "music theory" helps with a lot of things mentally (if you know it, a lot of things make sense) it doesn't help a player getting any better when it comes to playing an instrument.
A lot of you have talked about patterns or the three nootes per string approach. Ed has said many times how much he loved Allan Holdsworth and the in/out playing is very common with fusion musicians. When you play at a certain speed one or two notes that are out of the contest won't sound so bad if you resolve your phrase with the right notes.
You can play in A and you can apply tons of stuff from chromatic notes to any other possible mode. It's the way you approach your instrument that will make it different.
A lot of music theory has to do with sight reading. That does take a lot of practise. However, unless you play for an orchestra, it's not essential. But it's important to know where you are going.
Someone mentioned people like Steve Vai, Joe Satriani and Yngwie Malmsteen in this thread.
Yngwie said that he doesn't read music... however his knowledge of theory is shown in some of the lessons you see on youtube.
Vai and Satriani know their theory quite well. That's how Steve Vai composes some of the songs he does. He knows where to go.
Rock music involves not as much theory as Jazz or Fusion or classical. However, if you know what you're doing it does help.
Eddie developed patterns for his hands and I think we can all hear or see that. The guy knew where he was going and what he wanted but a lot of the Van Halen songs are Rock/blues based songs. Then you get something like She's the woman from the last album and you see how Ed had to work out a solo because of the chords progression.

[FL6]

I'd be more interested in discussing which scales/notes he's playing over which chords.

[garbeaj]

Yeah the chord-scale relationships would be interesting. I find Ed's playing ends up being more complicated in the telling/application of music theory after the fact. But I'm hopeful that there are some theory wonks out there who can try to break Ed's playing down with a nod towards those of us (like me) that have absolute zero theory knowledge.

I think Santi is right on in his post above buy the way. Well put man!

[Santi]

If I had to describe Eddie's notes I would say that he's using penthatonics, Dorian mode and depending on the song Mixolidian mode. If you look at the scales, you can see what patterns Eddie uses.

[mr.twistyneck]

When you play at a certain speed one or two notes that are out of the contest won't sound so bad if you resolve your phrase with the right notes.

If I had to describe Eddie's notes I would say that he's using penthatonics, Dorian mode and depending on the song Mixolidian mode. If you look at the scales, you can see what patterns Eddie uses.

Yes and Yes. Thank you Santi!

[Santi]

When you play at a certain speed one or two notes that are out of the contest won't sound so bad if you resolve your phrase with the right notes.

If I had to describe Eddie's notes I would say that he's using penthatonics, Dorian mode and depending on the song Mixolidian mode. If you look at the scales, you can see what patterns Eddie uses.

Yes and Yes. Thank you Santi!

You are more than welcome. I do use a bit of "Eddies" in my playing.
Please listen to this if you are interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHwSKO2XUkg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's not Van Halen... but has that vibe

[NY Chief]

Rock n Roll came from the blues, the blues came from Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, et al…these guys did NOT go to GIT. They had NO clue what they were doing theoretically and no one can argue otherwise. There was no “Blues 101” at Berkley. And they certainly weren’t Juliard trained classical or jazz players. The pentatonic patterns evolved from what sounded good, Clapton and his era players refined it and brought it to the next step the only way they could, by listening to the old records and trying to play what they heard. E D was the next generation but there was still no GIT, it was still seat of the pants. He may or may be doctorate level knowledge now but I’m willing to bet most of whatever he did learn initially didn’t have much more of an impact on his rock playing than the Mel Bay Book 1 “E string” medley many of us started out with back then. Today is a totally different story obviously. I have ultimate respect for the trained, theory guys and applying it back to what the founders were doing instinctively. I wish I continued on with my limited music lessons.

All that being said, the OP was supposed to be about exactly that, the theoretical explanation(s) of what E D was doing (whether he knew it or not ….

Have fun

[NY Chief]

Come to think of it, I don't think you or anyone has a right to say what anyone deserves or doesn't deserve.

Last I checked it was still a free country. I can say what I want. I don't think ANY mortal should be put on a pedestal because thay can do something better than most. And that also includes hollywood aholes, atheletes, politicians, etc

[mightymike]

If I had to describe Eddie's notes I would say that he's using penthatonics, Dorian mode and depending on the song Mixolidian mode. If you look at the scales, you can see what patterns Eddie uses.

Very interesting! Which songs/leads would be good examples his use of these modes.

[Santi]

I will try to explain what I mean and where I hear it:
Say you have in the key of A:

Penthatonic
5--8
5--8
5-7
5-7
5-7
5--8

Dorian Mode
5-78
5-78
45-7
45-7
3-5-7
3-5-7

Mixolidian Mode
5-7-9
5-78
4-67
45-7
45-7
5-7

Blues Scale
5--8
5--8
5-78
5-7
567
5--8

Solo:
"Ain't talking about love" solo is based on the Dorian mode. The fast picking definitely is and it's even clearer when Ed plays live;
"hot hor teacher" tapping (not the main intro but the final run before the song kicks in) is based on the Dorian mode plus blues scale;
"I'm the one" final solo run before Dave starts singing is part Mixolidian and part Dorian mode.

Does it make sense?

[rgorke]

Seems like opening licks in Eruption are Pentatonic into Dorian, no?

[unimind]

Seems like opening licks in Eruption are Pentatonic into Dorian, no?

Yes.