1959 2013 LP Build

vanhalen5150 · Post by **vanhalen5150** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:24 am

jimmyride wrote:Wow, that last update got me lost as well. I'm not even sure what you want to achieve with those angles. So you leveled the thickness of the neck plane (where the neck pocket will be) with the bottom of the guitar under the 4.4 degrees angle, so that the neck would be paralel with the body, am I correct? What about that 1.2 angle? Where did you apply this angle? Maybe I'm just stupid but I need to figure this out.

I'll take some pics...it will all make sense. An LP has weird angles that you wouldn't think are there. The curves trick your eye but the neck is attached at 4.4 degrees from the body. This angles it back. The PU's "plane angle" is 1.2 degrees after the neck but relative to the rest of the body. The entire neck sits at 4.4 degrees. Even the PU's do. But the PU "plane angle" for the top is 1.2 degrees. The pickup holes and neck slot still sit at 4.4 degrees.

Confused?

vanhalen5150 · Post by **vanhalen5150** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:29 am

The PU "plane angle" only means the area of the body where the PU's sit. It doesn't mean the angle of the pickups. The top of your pu's sit flush with the neck angle, which is 4.4 degrees. The 1.2 angle allows the body to taper back towards the bridge and then round off. Otherwise the top would just look flat and would be massively thick at one end.

somethin'else · Post by **somethin'else** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:30 pm

From the bridge and tailpiece heading FORWARD towards the neck, you plane at a slow 1.2 degree slope from 'level 0 degrees'.
Then from the beginning of the (end of the fretboard) neck plane you slope-plane towards the headstock (away from the body) a 4.4 degree slope to set the neck angle.
That's why the bridge pup sits higher with the taller pup ring, so's to rise up to meet the neck (& therefore, string) angle at the bridge.
Yes?

vanhalen5150 · Post by **vanhalen5150** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:48 pm

Sort of. Your flipping the angle upside down from the body side. I look at everything from the neck side. I'll put some straight edges on the planes and you'll get it.

vanhalen5150 · Post by **vanhalen5150** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:55 pm

Wait till you see the neck joint angles!

JimiJames · Post by **JimiJames** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:04 pm

Apparently that angle; in relationship from the body to the strings;
from the ABR-1 over the pickup's and across the fretboard to the nut; Tom Murphy prefers the flatter plain.
(His De-stressing vid's are interesting, too... Will you be keeping yours "like new" ?

)

vanhalen5150 · Post by **vanhalen5150** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:10 pm

JimiJames wrote:Apparently that angle; in relationship from the body to the strings;
from the ABR-1 over the pickup's and across the fretboard to the nut; Tom Murphy prefers the flatter plain.
(His De-stressing vid's are interesting, too... Will you be keeping yours "like new" ? )

Yup. The strings are the only straight line on an LP.

Actaually I have some "seasoned" LP parts Im going to add for hardware. I've heard some great thing about the replica PU's Stemac is making so I may go for some of those. Next winter I'm going to leave it in the trunk of my car when its -20.

JimiJames · Post by **JimiJames** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:14 pm

vanhalen5150 wrote:Next winter I'm going to leave it in the trunk of my car when its -20.

In a case of course...

jimmyride · Post by **jimmyride** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:31 pm

It's all starting to make sense.

So the pickups are routed under the 4.4 angle as well. I didn't know that. That means the body also needs to be put on that angle from the downer side to drill the holes and stuff. So 1.2 is an angle of the neck and PU planes and 4.4 is an angle of the neck pocket and pickups. What about bridge and tailpiece holes? They seem to be straight on my Gibson LP. There's still a lot of confusion in my head though. I need to browse through the photos a few times and maybe then I'll understand. I don't understand what you did after you leveled the thickness with the bottom end.

vanhalen5150 wrote:
jimmyride wrote:Wow, that last update got me lost as well. I'm not even sure what you want to achieve with those angles. So you leveled the thickness of the neck plane (where the neck pocket will be) with the bottom of the guitar under the 4.4 degrees angle, so that the neck would be paralel with the body, am I correct? What about that 1.2 angle? Where did you apply this angle? Maybe I'm just stupid but I need to figure this out.
I'll take some pics...it will all make sense. An LP has weird angles that you wouldn't think are there. The curves trick your eye but the neck is attached at 4.4 degrees from the body. This angles it back. The PU's "plane angle" is 1.2 degrees after the neck but relative to the rest of the body. The entire neck sits at 4.4 degrees. Even the PU's do. But the PU "plane angle" for the top is 1.2 degrees. The pickup holes and neck slot still sit at 4.4 degrees.

Confused?

vanhalen5150 · Post by **vanhalen5150** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:47 pm

no, the neck is 4.4 too.

I leveled the first top. When I replaced it I left the new one thicker because it mostly gets routed off anyways. Everything still stays the same.

jimmyride · Post by **jimmyride** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:14 pm

Ok, I don't want to pollute this thread with questions like this. Do you have a tip for a suitable literature on building LPs or a link?

vanhalen5150 · Post by **vanhalen5150** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:21 pm

You have to think about how things are done by looking at the plans. The PU leg holes are actually routed at the same depth as the bottom of the neck pocket. The PU's are not routed as deep and are routed after the neck is glued in!

When you remove the neck PU in a LP and look at the bottom, you see the tongue sitting there. Thats because it was routed after it was glued in and is exactly the same depth as the PU. The bottom of that neck tougue sits level on a 4.4 degree with the PU leg route depths.

vanhalen5150 · Post by **vanhalen5150** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:24 pm

jimmyride wrote:Ok, I don't want to pollute this thread with questions like this. Do you have a tip for a suitable literature on building LPs or a link?

These 2 are my fav's. I'm still learning as I go along. Lots of cool stuff.

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/luthier ... build.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/luthier ... build.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is a PDF file towards the end of the Bartlett build. It cuts out a lot of redundant questions from the original thread.

jimmyride · Post by **jimmyride** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:51 pm

I got the plans yesterday. They are amazing. I think I finally understood all this neck/pickup plane stuff.

Anyway... any news? I'm still pretty worried about the neck. It seems like the most difficult part to me.

vanhalen5150 · Post by **vanhalen5150** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:10 am

Yeah those plans explain pretty much what you don't get from templates.

I spent most of yesterday sanding and scraping the top. Hopeing to get the neck pocket and binding channel routed today.

I discovered a few things from looking at a lot of pics. The nicer tops have a perfect 12 degree radius that follows between the 2 pickup rings and then tapers almost flat again as it goes through the pickup. Others are flatter through that area don't have the same overall look. Depending on who did the sanding at the time they also seemed to add a little more recurve, or "the dip" on the outer edge.

Everything goes well i'll get up a few pics tomorrow. If it doesn't go well, I'll still post pics.

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