Sly Stone to appear at the Grammys

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:05 pm

NY Chief wrote:No argument there...it certainly IS what it IS...

like i said it either speaks to you or it doesnt - but i think if it doesnt speak to you that that means it sucks!

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:08 pm

Different direction. Yes. Always. Better direction.... Hmmm I look at it as the same thing with amps, tubes, tv's, movies, the digital medium itself and just about everything else. More doesnt mean better. The more corporate the world gets the less soul it has. Todays music is no different. Eminem and fiddy. Yeah I can listen to their grooves and be impressed in a 'not expecting much anyway' kinda way. But it all sounds so 'industry' to me. So 'instant gratification'. Absolutely no soul and definitely no innovation. The only innovation since hiphop started was to reinvent odler styles and merge them in a more formulaic way then watch as every new artist being promoted is doing the same thing. I like coldplay. But I dont respect them the way I respect U2. And Im thinking 10 years from now, neither will anyone else. Its the times we live in...

I like rap. Theres really only one style of music that I actually detest. Adult contemporary. ewhhhhhh

Thats what you get when your into styles of music that generate money. It gets corrupted. Now jazz on the other hand...

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:14 pm

well i beg to differ

i think there is a lot of heart and soul in it - that is the very thing i am appreciating in a music style that doesnt speak to me.

my whole thing is with the posts is i get tired of people saying something sucks cause it doenst speak to them... to turn art into a sport by comparing is what i fear the most with such attitudes.
Mark

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:35 pm

Thats all well and good, until you realize that the artists at the grammys every year are there not because of their music but because of money. People actually act shocked that labels buy their artists onto top 40 stations that basically dictate who the next big artists are going to be? It only happens to be comming out in droves now. Does anyone really believe that hasnt been going on for decades? To ignore that Mark, thats what I see as the problem. Your looking at it as, putting down art is bad. I agree. Im looking at it as, putting down the limitation on art we're getting access to. To ignore that limitation is the problem. I do what I can buy avoiding top 40 stations like the plague, doing my best to support smaller artists who dont have any major label backing, and not watching the grammys. It wont change anything. But that doesnt mean I have to be happy about the fact that the grammys will have artists who arent there because of art. But you cant always help what you like and I have a lot of new stuff from the past year. Like coldplay. The whole situation just makes me cynical about all popular music. You can understant cant you?

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:57 pm

Billy Batz wrote:Thats all well and good, until you realize that the artists at the grammys every year are there not because of their music but because of money. People actually act shocked that labels buy their artists onto top 40 stations that basically dictate who the next big artists are going to be? It only happens to be comming out in droves now. Does anyone really believe that hasnt been going on for decades? To ignore that Mark, thats what I see as the problem. Your looking at it as, putting down art is bad. Im looking at it as, putting down the very very limited art we're getting access to. To ignore that limitation is the problem. I do what I can buy avoiding top 40 stations like the plague, doing my best to support smaller artists who dont have any major label backing, and not watching the grammys. It wont change anything. But that doesnt mean I have to be happy about the fact that the grammys is chock full of artists who arent there because of art. But you cant always help what you like and I have a lot of new stuff from the past year. Like coldplay. The whole situation just makes me cynical about all popular music.

Dan,
i agree! its all about the money!
it is interesting redirect and i have a feeling we could go back and forth all day long here but i still stand on my saying that any art sucks cause it doenst speak is what i disagree with. further more you mentioned that this in the business has gone on for decades - i agree - its about money - its all about the money - does that make it bad? hardly. you can buy wine in safeway or you can hunt out some real good stuff. i dont think people on top 40 suck at all - its what people want - its in the numbers and i know you would argue that people dont know what they want and the industry force feeds until they like it - but thats how it works and how it has worked for decades. if it doesnt speak find something else but in now way shape or form does that mean it sucks!
and the very art we get limited to? r u limited? im not - i can find stuff all day long that speaks but for the masses they want what they want and its in the numbers as far as top 40 goes - because the industry paid to get on that list - that is how its worked for decades! i dont care - again that is no reason to say any art sucks - again if it doenst speak look elsewhere instead of coming down on the industry or the artists. what is in the charts takes many to get there and stay there - again my whole thing is saying that any art sucks is just not what art is about.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:14 pm

We could go all day for sure. I think people know what they like. But the top 40 stations are the top 40 becuase the vast majority listens to it. How can you think they are not limited when most people only listen to pop music stations and whats being played there is decided by monitary agendas? When thats your agenda, diversity, innovation and uniqueness are not your friend. You want to have some control over it and by that your trying to be formulaic and promote music that sounds the same. And thats waht top 40s are rgardless of the music just knowing that you have to be biased. I cant see how you think that wouldnt limit music. The wine analogy isnt right at all. It would be closer analogy if you said one or a few wine companies was paying liquor chains to make sure their wine was the only wine in the store. Thats limiting peoples tastes. Sure soem stores will still give you anything you could name. But most people will never get access to it because they dont bother. Thats what makes me biased against popular music.

I enjoy good debates btw.

Flames1950 · Post by **Flames1950** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:15 pm

OnTheFritz wrote:I'm kinda with George on any and all awards shows!!
Had my bowl of puke and played Flames' 50 watter!

As long as the fifty watter wasn't the cause of the puke, good deal!

NY Chief · Post by **NY Chief** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:28 pm

rockstah wrote:
NY Chief wrote:No argument there...it certainly IS what it IS...
like i said it either speaks to you or it doesnt - but i think if it doesnt speak to you that that means it sucks!

Groove? In Rap? Drum machines, sequencers and scratch pads does not a groove make. Groove = Motown. You can't get a better groove in the pocket than that. Rap comes nowhere near.

Heart & Soul? I would say more like hate, animosity, pimping and "ole whitey hold me down" 'tudes is better description. "Bust a cap in yo ass" Gangsta, MY ass.

Soul = (again) Motown. Rap comes nowhere near.

Art DOES = sport. It takes talent to be good and excel. Money frequently buys a good team that does not excel therefore, sucks.

And Dan is right about ongoing control and corruption in the music biz. Isn't NY Attorney General investigating 21st payola in NY at this very moment?

BTW, just how many of those gansta rappers actually play an instrument? All I ever see them do is jump around and sing about their "ho's" and their "ho's" big asses.
Bands like NWA singing about killing cops? Real arttistic. I like and appreciate all types of music. If you're a good player I'll appreciate it, might not like it but appreciate it.

RAP is NOT music. "It doesn't speak that means it sucks"!

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:30 pm

NY, everything you posted = it doenst speak to you = but again that doesnt mean it sucks!

and this is my point.

dude!! art is a reflection of society - its not your world i understand but i dont think you understand its their world.

tons of groove, heart and soul in that stuff - its just wrong for art to be treated like a sport

it is not a sport damn it!

Mark

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:36 pm

Im totally with both of you. Its not something thats concrete. Its subjective matter about subjective matter

Im totally with Mark that you shouldnt put down any art, though cmon Mark you really saying youve never said someone sucked ever?, but at the same time I find it hard to hand out respect these days when more then ever I think the only reason many of these artists are popular has nothing to do with art.

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:40 pm

Billy Batz wrote:Im totally with both of you. Its not something thats concrete. Its subjective matter about subjective matter Im totally with Mark that you shouldnt put down any art, though cmon Mark you really saying youve never said someone sucked ever?, but at the same time I find it hard to hand out respect these days when more then ever I think the only reason many of these artists are popular has nothing to do with art.

Dan, the only time i may lend to saying someone sucks is when they have either barely gone through the motions or havnt done their homework enough to be standing there in the first place. which comes through in the art - (example - american idol) - again where their is heart and soul and comitment i cannot deny the art... even if it doesnt speak to me.
Mark

OnTheFritz · Post by **OnTheFritz** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:48 pm

Flames, the only thing that may have made me puke besides award shows, is my playing ability!!!

Or lack of

And I do think Rap sucks FWIW. It's not music, whatever happened to Motown? There needs to be a revival of that style, and put some real talent back into the industry.

NY Chief · Post by **NY Chief** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:44 pm

I'm sorry, Mark. You're a better man than me. Most rap is the most grating, annoying, least talented, moronic, repetitive, monotone, droning, self indulgent, aggrandizing, arrogant, non-musical, belligerent crap there is.

It most certainly must be art (like performance art and Yoko's art and Warhol's art and Picasso's art)... cause it sure is NOT music.

Any music form that romanticizes gun play and "ho" chasing, and "gangsta" lifestyle is not fit for my kids.

You're right, it does speak to me, in volumes, and I don't like it.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:58 pm

Not all rap is like that cheif. Just like not all rock is blink 182 and good charlotte. Bands like the Roots, NERD and the Neptunes have great musicians in them if no great lead guitar players. Theyre froma different school. Funk Soul and R&Bjazz and motown. Some of those bass players and drummers could play circles around anyone inr ock. At least in their type of music.

saborthw · Post by **saborthw** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:47 pm

Dan,

If those artists from the day of funk and R&B full circle and if James Brown & Funkadellic become popular again Bring it on !!!!!! those guys kick ass. To sample, sequence, drum machine and spew gangsta Ho rap crap on some bullshit recording that the artist was only in it for the money, where is the art in that.
All our heros spent their time playing in bands since they were 10, practicing and perfecting their playing. The reason that thay are sucessful and sucessful today is because of the love of music and the desire to improve their craft. I agree with Chief Rap is not art, rap is not music, music comes from the heart not from the ASS !!!!!

Scott