Royer 121 or U-87 for cabs using the Moby M-5 Pleasure Unit

Myopic Void.. · Post by **Myopic Void..** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:29 am

I am currently getting ready to update the mic cabinet with mics aimed at recording 4x12 cabs live. For years I have used Shure 545's, 57's and sometimes a EV RE20 etc. I am wanting to try something else and thought I would see what you people like to use on your cabs and any thoughts on Royer 121's and U-87 on cabs. I realize the U-87 or U-67 is not what some people would feel comfortable grabbing for a 4x12 cab, but I have seen them used in many live 60's & 70's shows on 4x12 cabs and bass cabs ie Humble Pie, early Gabriel era Genesis, John Paul Jones Acoustic 360 bass cabs 1970-75 era, The Who and many more. I have used U-67's for vocals and small "quiet" bass cabs (Ampex B flip-top) but have never had any studio I worked for or recorded at let me throw a real Neuman on a cranked SLP 100 with a 4x12 without getting looks of silent reproach. LOL!

Currently I am concentrated on live recording as small side business on top of my regular studio using my mobile recording rack, tracking on a Ampex 440C 1/2" 4 trk 15ips-30ips with 4 racked Neve 1272 modules and Mackie 1402. Usually bass cabs get a AKG d12's, Bass drums get a EV RE20 and Sennheiser ME40's or CAD 200's as overheads. Guitar cabs 545 and 57's maybe a RE20. Vocals 545's or 58's (for live).

My new add below (reduced in size for the interent) for the Studio 70 mobile "Moby M-5 Pleasure Unit"... Yes it is real with a little humor added for good measure...I think the picture design of the unit came out pretty well. Analog is Back! Digital Beware...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y151/p ... -5copy.jpg
I have been reading about the Royer 121 and have heard good things but for a little more $$ I could aquire a used U-87. I am little concerned about the brightness of a condensor but a U-87 is not your garden variety, Chinese made, under $200.00 condensor. Other choices could be the E609 (which I have already ordered to try out) and the other fave the Sennheiser 421's, which from memory were quite nice on 4x12's. Also heard good things about the Beyer M-88TG and Audix products. My current mic cabinet (for guitar miking) is maybe the weakest link in my chain. 57's and 545's often sound thin and harsh and RE20's seem to be better suited for bass. The Neve's have been a good match for my 67 METRO SLP and 68 SLP, better than the Mackie XDR's. Now for some better guitar mics..

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Eric

Myopic Void.. · Post by **Myopic Void..** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:16 pm

Anyone have time in with a Royer 121 or U-87 for 4x12 cabs??

Post by **VelvetGeorge** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:44 pm

I have used a 121, but not a U87. I'll try to post later tonight.

George

Myopic Void · Post by **Myopic Void** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:13 pm

Getting close to laying down the 1000.00 for the Royer 121. I did get an offical statement from Neuman, the U87 can handle 120spl, and with the 10db pad on it will handle 130spl. I have no idea what my 67 SLP and 4x12 cab is doing with no attenuation full out. I run it about 7-8 vol. So the U87 could be in the risky zone.

I need to get a SPL meter and find out. So did you like the sound of the Royer 121 George? What medium did you track on and what pre's did you use.
I get a little worried that the Royer is going to be too dark through my Neve 1272's. I also worry a little about the rear pickup qualities of the Royere 121 getting to much of the drummer's 14x26 bass and the bass cab in my guitar track for live work.

Cheers,

Eric

BashCoder · Post by **BashCoder** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:15 am

I don't think you have to be too concerned about excessive top end with a U87, even though it is a large diaphragm condensor. That would be more of a concern with a U89 though.

I've often used U87's along with SM57's for guitar. I'll mic up close with the 57, then back off a couple feet with the 87 and mix them. Use the pad on the 87 and watch out for phase cancellation, of course.

87's are also cool that way on kick. Close mic the kick with a dynamic, then back off with the 87. If you don't like the room sound, build a foam tunnel for a few feet in front of the kick and mic inside that. The goal is to let some low end develop and capture that with the condensor.

Myopic Void · Post by **Myopic Void** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:36 pm

Bashcoder/George..Thanks for your advice.

I went ahead with the Royer for $1100.00. The mic suspension clip for it was another bill and some change. The U87 was going to cost me 1300.00 give or take, and I am a little leary about the brightness and an older U87 can often nead some servicing which runs a few more bills. In the next 6 months it will be a U87 at least for studio vocals.

I have heard some good things about the Royer 121 on vocals and I tried it today with the Neve's and noticed right off the bat how smooth and rich souding it was compared to my Senheiser ME40 condensor and large diaphram CAD condensors. You know it reminded me of the Dean Martin 50's records vocal sounds. That should be no surprise since Ribbon's were the order of the day in many cases back then.... RCA's etc.

I have two Ampex 350 channel electronic mic pre's that it would right at home with, I am told Ampex 350'-400's channel electronics are what they used sometimes for tracking in the 50's.

Saturday night will be the Royer test as I am doing another live recording with the Moby M-5 mobile. The Royer and Neve's will get a crack at capturing my 67 SLP. Wish me luck as I hope I do not blow the Ribbon, and hopefully come away with some better guitar tracks !!

Cheers,

Eric