The PPIMV (Post-PI-Master-Volume) thread.

Info for maintaining and tweaking your amp to perfection.

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rockstah
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Post by rockstah » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:40 pm

rtcook wrote:Mark,

I know you like the PEC pots, but they don't have a dual 250K linear pot. What brand did you use and where did you get it?

This PPIMV has come about at a great time. I am just putting together my 69 board and I have the dual 500K setup with the 430K resistors in place of the 220K ones. If I am reading this correctly, I can just use this dual 250K pot and put in some 2.2M resistors in place of where the 220K ones originally were? Sounds too simple. Did I miss something?

Thanks,

Roger
its a alpha dual 250k lin- im sure George can get them for you.

no go back ( start at page 5 where i came in )and read the thread its all there where the 2.2m go and how there are no 220k's on the board at all with this master volume.

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Post by novosibir » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:44 pm

rockstah wrote:i was very impressed with it - no Parasitic O and it doesnt even happen when you turn it up either! yes it was ONE - bedroom level. ;)

my "'Larry's PPIMV" rocks! :mrgreen:
In fact I've never seen it before, that anybody else modded an amp with a PPIMV with a 250K pot - but after I've noticed, that PPIMV's with 500K or even 1M pots are vulnerable for PO first it's been a pure theoretical construct.

The goal was:

- to lower the sensitivity of the PPIMV, that's no longer so much prone for catching other strayfields around the PI and OT wires

- not to drop below the usual bias feed resistance of 220K, seen from the PI's coupling caps

- to keep the resistance between the PI's coupling caps and the output tube's grids as less as possible, to prevent high losses when the pot is set to low volume settings

- and to prevent the output tubes against possible wiper failures of the pot, what would end up with dead output tubes due to bias disconnection

So the result was this type of PPIMV with a 250K double pot w/ 2.2M resistors soldered between the wipers and the outputs (bias voltage supply) - and NO bias feed resistors remaining on the board.

I've always done it w/o shielded cables w/o any problems, just twist the two wires from the coupling caps to the pot's inputs - they aren't far as sensitive, as the wires from the wipers to the tube's grids are.

But when you've mounted the pot in a speaker jack hole, then you can run the wiper's wires simply THE SHORT WAY to the tube's grids! So also these wires not imperatively have to be shielded - just twist them also and keep them away from the output tube's plate wires and the screen resistors as far as possible...

... and all is working properly. No PO, no fizz, just sound :D

Larry
The fault almost always is sitting in front of the amp :wink:

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Post by novosibir » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:51 pm

rtcook wrote:If I am reading this correctly, I can just use this dual 250K pot and put in some 2.2M resistors in place of where the 220K ones originally were? Sounds too simple. Did I miss something?
Yep! That's all!

But don't place the 2.2M resistors onto the board and don't run the grid wires from the pot to the board and back again to the tubes! That's creating the unwanted 'antenna', which receives PO, fizz, aso.

Solder the 2.2M's directly to the pot and run from there directly to the tubes!

Larry


BTW: No matter, whether you're using a 250K lin. or a 250K log. - I've always used a 250K log.
The fault almost always is sitting in front of the amp :wink:

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Post by rtcook » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:57 pm

Thank you Larry and Mark! I will have to try this in my build.

Roger

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Post by 5150loveeddie » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:58 pm

Larry, you rock man, I'm all fucked up now, have to read the thread from what page........to get the goodies?? :shock:

Mark that MV is the shiiaat

MArk and LArry, rocks en ostie :wink:

AND if you look at my avatar pic, the nipples of the girl are getting harder now, that a good sign!!!
Last edited by 5150loveeddie on Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by novosibir » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:01 pm

5150loveeddie wrote:have to read the thread from what page........to get the goodies?? :shock:
From page 5 onwards!

Larry
The fault almost always is sitting in front of the amp :wink:

Larry's Website now with included Pix's Gallery

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Post by 5150loveeddie » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:03 pm

Larry were can I send the flowers, what's your address again???

Man you are so good!!!! Your as good as my Braun electric shaver!!! You crazy German you!!! :mrgreen:
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Post by Guitar Adjuster » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:23 pm

Has anyone done a diagram of this "Larry" master volume mod? Sounds cool.

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Post by novosibir » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:27 pm

5150loveeddie wrote:Larry were can I send the flowers, what's your address again???
C'mon - send it to Mark!

Because his great playing and because he's been the pioneer of the Metro family with the 'Larry's PPIMV' he's also worth the flowers :D

Larry
The fault almost always is sitting in front of the amp :wink:

Larry's Website now with included Pix's Gallery

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Post by 5150loveeddie » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:35 pm

novosibir wrote:
5150loveeddie wrote:Larry were can I send the flowers, what's your address again???
C'mon - send it to Mark!

Because his great playing and because he's been the pioneer of the Metro family with the 'Larry's PPIMV' he's also worth the flowers :D

Larry
Mark get's the Chocolate :wink:
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Post by rockstah » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:44 pm

hey i came up with this master! :D - and with Larry's help he refined it and added the 2.2m resistors make the pot = 223k when dimed as well if the pot fails the tubes will not blow with the 2.2m in place -
i posted very detailed pics of this master which is ken fishers type 2 found in the trainwreck pages. and with the help of Larry again, wired it up correctly.
further more the two 2.m resistors DO NOT replace the 220k's on the board - its the pot that does that.
the 2.2m resistors again safe guard if the pot fails and also makes it all add up to around 223k when dimed as if it wasnt in the circuit at all.
something the previous master volume didnt do!

it all starts at page 5 of this thread - enjoy it - it sounds way better than the first PPIMV i tried.

Mark
Last edited by rockstah on Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by 5150loveeddie » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:56 pm

Ok you get the flowers AND the Chocolate..... :wink: :wink:
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Post by rockstah » Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:01 am

5150loveeddie wrote:Ok you get the flowers AND the Chocolate..... :wink: :wink:
haha! that sounded bad didnt it? :oops: well the things we try to type sometimes come out funny in text. :mrgreen:

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Post by SDM » Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:27 am

Good job guys, I'd say it's about time for a PPIMV that doesn't mess with the PI loading (as the "Rich" type does) becomes the standard for these. Can just use 2meg resistors with the 250K pot for about 222K total dimed too.

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Post by rockstah » Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:30 am

SDM wrote:Good job guys, I'd say it's about time for a PPIMV that doesn't mess with the PI loading (as the "Rich" type does) becomes the standard for these. Can just use 2meg resistors with the 250K pot for about 222K total dimed too.
indeed we couldnt have done it without Larrys help for sure!

but i did use 2m and 220k in series u say i could use just the 2m. kewlness! 8)
Last edited by rockstah on Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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