They executed Saddam today

[mightymike]

+1
I know I'm one to talk,but let's please take this down a notch.
I think all of you guys have good hearts, and love your country, and want everyone to live in peace. You just have honest differences on how to get to the same goal. So please give each other the benifit of the doubt.

Personaly I don't see either Major party getting us out of Iraq soon.
There's too much politics going on in the decision making proces.
Neither side wants the other to succeed, and our troops pay in blood for that.

Knowing what we know know, we shouldn't have gone in, in the first place, but now we're there, and If we did get out too soon, you might as well rename the country South Iran, and rename Bagdad to Shariaville. The implications of which would lead to more worldwide terrorism, and a greater war later for our children to fight imho.

We stirred up a hornets nest.

I'm not so sure we're better off. Saddam commited genocide, but at what point do these MAhdi Army death squads equate to genocide?

So did we just trade a secular Genocidal maniac , for a Religious Genocidal Manic who is actually closer to getting a NUKE!?

Do the Saudis feel safer?
I'm sure they're not happy with the prospect of a Shia controlled Iraq.
I wouldn't be suprised if when we left, they went in to Iraq, to protect the Sunni Areas.

Then what? A Saudi/Iran war to suck the whole mideast into, and then the whole world?

We live in treacherous times.
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/t ... BD4A353798

[JeffG.]

I smell another "Hamas" thread brewing. And this time I'm staying well away.
Peace.

Mike

LOL I hear you. Funny how the most verbose people often have the most myopic view.

[texwest]

mighty mike I think you are being very reasonable and easy to talk to. These are treacherous times and I agree that it could get even worse. I'm not sure what the answer is. I hope our leaders are going to do what is best in the long run. Not what is politically expedient for themselves at this time.

Just leaving Iraq may not be the answer. I honestly don't know. We have Iran trying to get Nukes and hosting an international conference on how the holocaust never happened. This is very dangerous. The hatred of the jews is once again going to cause major strife in our world.

Mike, I'm sure we could have an interesting conversation about it even if we disagreed about the course of action to solve it.

[texwest]

I smell another "Hamas" thread brewing. And this time I'm staying well away.
Peace.

Mike

LOL I hear you. Funny how the most verbose people often have the most myopic view.

If you are refering to me. I would point out that I didn't express my views. Admittedly I tore down anothers viewpoint that was based in ignorance of how American government works. I thought I would explain our system of government to him.

Unfortunately I am myopic and have to wear corrective lenses. Maybe I'm wrong. But I don't have a fixed opinion about all this. Wasn't my main point that we should talk to each other about politics with more respect for each other and our opinions? Can there be a discussion of this without it heating up?

[mightymike]

Absolutely, but it's not easy with a touchy subject like this.
You have to really make it a point to cut each other some slack.


In not saying we went to Iraq for oil, but I believe it was a part of the equation.

With that in mind:

How many of these could we buy with the money we spent in Iraq?

http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1

Think we could get a bulk discount?
Even the name is cool.
Zero to 60 mph in about 4 seconds with a top speed of over 130 mph*.

And they'll even come to your house an install solar panels so you can charge it from the Sun.

OMG this is so cool.

This car deserves its own thread.

[bluefuzzguitar]

TexWest & MightyMike,

You two are the voice of reason, thanks for that! I don't want to get into a 'he started it' kind of thing, but me and St August have locked horns before in a 9/11 thread here on this forum. If you go back to the first page you'll find that it's actually Jerry who starts his 'you're worse than the French' neocon BS. I'm sorry but I can't take that seriously. Why is it these so-called conservatives can never debate a subject based on content and only hurl verbal abuse? Never mind, they're a dying breed anyway.

As for me being a victim of propaganda, I'm sorry to tell you Americans that you are the most heavily propagandized nation in the world. Your entire history books are based on myths. And even now you're believing in fairytales. Like American newspapers being 'left-leaning', for example. I've got news for you: all American mainstream media are concentrated in five media groups. Who do you think those five people at the top of those pyramids want to satisfy more, you or the shareholders? Who do you think the shareholders are? Right, military companies such as General Electric, for example. Your news is being sanitized, which is why people here talk about throwing bombs like they're frisbees. Mind you, it's the same in all western countries, including mine (three media groups in Holland controlling 90% of the 'free' press).

Is it any wonder the mainstream newspapers all came out pronouncing GW Bush the winner of the 2000 'selection'? Why did the Supreme Court block a recount? What were they afraid of? And the Repugs not being in control of voting? The evidence of voter fraud and harassment in the 2000, 2002, 2004 and 2006 elections is overwhelming. The President of Diebold promised Bush the state of Ohio in 2004 and he just happened to be one of the main fundraisers for the Repugs. Even the mainstream media were forced to cover the topic of vote fraud last year. Thank God so many young people voted which made it impossible to switch the votes around this time.

You see, these are all arguments and I can back them up too if people are interested. Things don't have to get so heated up as long as everybody stays intelligent but with people like St August it's impossible to get past the screaming.

Mike

[mightymike]

Iran and China have controlled media, you I both have access to the internet.

That's why like Google News.

http://news.google.com/

Even if you look at one of today's headlines you'll see where at the bottom where it says "all 1,571 news articles

[Necrovore]

Is it any wonder the mainstream newspapers all came out pronouncing GW Bush the winner of the 2000 'selection'? Why did the Supreme Court block a recount? What were they afraid of? And the Repugs not being in control of voting? The evidence of voter fraud and harassment in the 2000, 2002, 2004 and 2006 elections is overwhelming. The President of Diebold promised Bush the state of Ohio in 2004 and he just happened to be one of the main fundraisers for the Repugs. Even the mainstream media were forced to cover the topic of vote fraud last year. Thank God so many young people voted which made it impossible to switch the votes around this time.

Mike

The reason he came out the winnner is that he won. Period. Bush won enough of the electorate votes required to assume the seat of President of the United States.

The Supreme Court blocked the recount because Al Gore filed a law suit to change state election laws regarding a Federal election. This is not allowed under our voting laws. You cannot change the way the game is played WHILE the game is in session. Period end of story. Not only that but Gore was trying to also only have three precincts within Florida perform a recount. Florida state law says that it is an all or nothing deal once the margin of error is within the 1% split of the vote. The Dems did not want this so they went to court to try and change the rules while the votes were still being counted. The lawsuit was shopped to a state court where the state law was upheld. It was then shopped to a "Friendly" federal district court where they overturned the State court's descision. This is where the Republican party appealed to the Supreme Court, which is the next in line to hear appeals, the Supreme Court overturned the federal district court's ruling as the federal district court had no authority to eve hear the case. End of story. I hope this clears this up for you. The news does not like to report the whole story and only reports sound bits that will garner ratings.

As for voter fraud, exactly where is the proof? Show me your evidence. Name one person under indictment for voter fraud during the 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006 elections. I don't want sound bites either. Anything less you are being a tool of the media and a propegandist yourself.

As for all the "young people" voting. That is another myth. There wasn't any more voters registered anywhere in the United States than normal. There also wasn't that different of a turnout than normal for mid term elections. Instead of spouting your media propeganda, let me tell you exactly what happened.

The conservatives elected either not to vote or voted against the GOP. Since 1994, the GOP has moved far enough away from the core values of the constituant base that we finally got sick of them and decided to show them who runs the show.
There is no was fatigue in this country. No one I know across the country has had to truly sacrifice for the war effort. This is not a knock down drag out war like our grandfathers had to fight. Those who whine about the war is taking too long are sheer pussies! Period! Go home and suck on a pacifier.

The GOP spent money like it was going out of style. Look at the Medicare drug benefit package that was passed last year. Stated over $9bil/year, and it hasn't even gone into effect and they are talking over $100bil/year is what will be required.
The bridge to nowhere in Alaska., The lack of will to secure our borders during time of war, gross pork barrel spending within the National budget. ETC.... ad nauseum!!!!

It was not those who usually voted Democrat who won this election. It was those who usually vote Republican which elected to make the GOP lose this one to prove a point.

As for the new tone now in the Cogress? I laugh at the prospects of the Democrats trying to eliminate funding for the military. That is political suicide and though they know it, they are so unpatriotic and hateful towards the military they won't be able to help themselves. They have been given themselves such a nice rope to hang themselves with.

[mightymike]

Since 1994, the GOP has moved far enough away from the core values of the constituant base

When they passed Nafta was when I bolted from the party.
To me that said, all they care about is the investor class, and the lobiest
for the big corps looking to cut labor costs. The rising tide won't lift all boats, when they get the labor elsewhere.

Look what it did to our manufacturing base. That was one part of our economy, where a guy with a a High school education could make a good living, with a pension, and insurance.

Now many of these people who lost their manufactering jobs to Mexico, and now China-Mart, are working at a Walmart. cough.. China-mart, and another job to make less than they did 10 years ago. And with no insurance.

But corporate profits are up.

Now what jobs that weren't shipped out, both parties can't wait to replace what's left with improted forien labor from all over the world. Look at all the mergers being allowed by both parties.

But hey corporate profits are up..

Ma Bell is practicly put back together.
Oil companies have been aloowed to merge, and look at the effect.


But hey corporate profits are up.
That's all that matters to both parties.

Even though Nadar and Buchanon are 2 ploar opposites, they would
break the corporate death grip that ruining this country.

Ross Perot was right...
There was a giant sucking sound of jobs leaving this country.
Good jobs too.

I wish he would run again.

[mightymike]

I love the way we record inflation too.

From 10 years ago to now.

Housing costs have more than tripled in my area, as have gas prices, but because the working class is getting so screwed with forieng labor, inflation looks slower, but if you take out labor, now look at inflation.


So yeah you can get cheap grociers at walmart, but it now cost 3 times more just to get by.

wages have been stagnant in comparison to the cost of Housing and fuel over the last 10 years.

But hey corporate profits are up.

[St August]

Bluefuzz I apoligize for the french comments... But when YOU interject in a thread
about a topic you know abosolutely nothing about. and insult my country
which I have served and honored I dont take it litely.. Actually I wasnt going to comment in this topic what so ever but you crossed the line.... and heres how you did it.

"I seem to remember GW Bush calling Iraq under US occupation a 'democracy'. I also seem to remember massive vote fraud has been taking place in every US election since 2000, which led to GW Bush stealing the presidency. The only reason it didn't work in 2006 is because people voted overwhelmingly Democratic, so much so that even vote fraud couldn't switch the vote. Choice, you say? ..

And Im not the only one that has givin you grief for it..

Thats what started it all... so in the future try to be more aware of what your getting ready to say.. or Ill be right there to give it the Full Monty!!
So take your blame game somewhere else.. and you were the one who posted 911 was Us government plot... and posted the movie thread at either google or you tube... you get No creditiblity with me... I waisted my breath on you for the last time......

[St August]

Since 1994, the GOP has moved far enough away from the core values of the constituant base

When they passed Nafta was when I bolted from the party.
To me that said, all they care about is the investor class, and the lobiest
for the big corps looking to cut labor costs. The rising tide won't lift all boats, when they get the labor elsewhere.

Look what it did to our manufacturing base. That was one part of our economy, where a guy with a a High school education could make a good living, with a pension, and insurance.

Now many of these people who lost their manufactering jobs to Mexico, and now China-Mart, are working at a Walmart. cough.. China-mart, and another job to make less than they did 10 years ago. And with no insurance.

But corporate profits are up.

Now what jobs that weren't shipped out, both parties can't wait to replace what's left with improted forien labor from all over the world. Look at all the mergers being allowed by both parties.

But hey corporate profits are up..

Ma Bell is practicly put back together.
Oil companies have been aloowed to merge, and look at the effect.


But hey corporate profits are up.
That's all that matters to both parties.

Even though Nadar and Buchanon are 2 ploar opposites, they would
break the corporate death grip that ruining this country.

Ross Perot was right...
There was a giant sucking sound of jobs leaving this country.
Good jobs too.

I wish he would run again.

+1 well said Perot in 2008

[NY Chief]

+ 2

[texwest]

The world is a better place today because Saddam is gone

Scott

Saddam was executed for the deaths of 148 people. GW Bush was responsible for 155 executions as governor of Texas, most of them as a result of unfair trials, just like Saddam. Under GW Bush, Texas became the state with the highest execution rate. Among those executed were underaged and mentally ill people. GW Bush's precious Iraq war has so far been responsible for the deaths of an estimated 655,000 people, most of them women and children. This war may well claim a million innocent lives. But remember, they hate us because we're free. Seems to me they hung the wrong guy.

Mike

This seems to be the inflammatory start. Do you still think George Bush is responsible for these executions? Where is your evidence of "unfair trials"?

By the way, I voted for Rose Perot.

[St August]

The world is a better place today because Saddam is gone

Scott

Saddam was executed for the deaths of 148 people. GW Bush was responsible for 155 executions as governor of Texas, most of them as a result of unfair trials, just like Saddam. Under GW Bush, Texas became the state with the highest execution rate. Among those executed were underaged and mentally ill people. GW Bush's precious Iraq war has so far been responsible for the deaths of an estimated 655,000 people, most of them women and children. This war may well claim a million innocent lives. But remember, they hate us because we're free. Seems to me they hung the wrong guy.

Mike

This seems to be the inflammatory start. Do you still think George Bush is responsible for these executions?

By the way, I voted for Rose Perot.

I also Twice